Toshiba turns up heat in DVD war with big price cut

[jmrosen]

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/gear/2008-01-14-toshibe-hd-dvd-prices_N.htm

Toshiba turns up heat in DVD war with big price cut


By Michelle Kessler, USA TODAY 1/15/08

Toshiba, unwilling to concede defeat in the next-generation-DVD battle, said Monday that it would launch an aggressive advertising campaign to promote its HD DVD players and slash prices about 50%.

Entry-level players now start at about $150, down from about $300.

The consumer electronics maker said in a statement that it would step up marketing of the players. It provided few details but said the ads would run on television, in print and online.

Toshiba made the move in response to a series of victories by a rival format, Sony-backed Blu-ray. The battle between HD DVD and Blu-ray is similar to the VHS-Betamax fight of the 1980s. Earlier this month, Hollywood giant Warner Bros. said it would release its films only on Blu-ray discs. It had previously supported both formats.

"The HD camp is doubling down," says tech analyst Roger Kay at Endpoint Technologies Associates. "Toshiba has to sell as many as they can … to populate the world with HD DVD players and maybe win back the studios."

Both HD DVD and Blu-ray can display higher-quality video than traditional DVDs. Blu-ray is arguably the more advanced technology, but HD DVD was out first and often costs less. Retailer Best Buy on Monday was offering Blu-ray players for $400 to $1,000 and HD DVD players for $150 to $1,000.

The two formats are not compatible, which means an HD DVD usually won't work in a Blu-ray player. Many movie studios have released films in both formats, an inconvenience that forces them to carry twice as much inventory.

That's why one format is expected to win out. Toshiba has support from studios including Universal Home Video, Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG. But Blu-ray's backers include 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney and Lionsgate Entertainment.

Adding to the confusion: Microsoft's Xbox video game system and some Toshiba laptops can play only HD DVD. Sony's PlayStation 3 video game system and some of its laptops can play only Blu-ray.

Toshiba is hoping lower prices will help it hang on. Price can be "a deal breaker for the mainstream consumer," Toshiba Vice President Yoshi Uchiyama said in a statement.

But many consumers are reluctant to buy a technology that may soon be obsolete.

"Every day the Blu-ray and HD DVD camps spend prosecuting this standards war represents a day lost in their race to remain relevant," analyst Krishna Chander at researcher iSuppli said in a recent note. "Amid the rise of exciting new digital media offerings like YouTube, iTunes and on-demand services, the window of lucrative opportunity is closing for both standards."

Toshiba also said it will continue ongoing promotions, including five HD DVD titles free with any of its HD DVD players

 

[JonUrban]

It's to the point where you get a free player for the cost of the 5 HD-DVDs! This will in effect get the player base out thier to go up in numbers, but will it make any other studios go back to HD-DVD? Probably not. It will, however, introduce HD Media to more folks one would think.

 

[Quadzilla]

Does it really signal that Toshiba is unwilling to admit defeat, or are they just dumping tons and tons of stock that they already have in the pipeline?

I would be interested to know if their factories are still actually producing HD DVD players. That would be more indicative of their true intentions.

Getting a hundred bucks a piece for them now is certainly a better alternative to getting flea market prices when the whole thing does collapse around them. Mike.

 

[JonUrban]

Does it really signal that Toshiba is unwilling to admit defeat, or are they just dumping tons and tons of stock that they already have in the pipeline?

I would be interested to know if their factories are still actually producing HD DVD players. That would be more indicative of their true intentions.

Getting a hundred bucks a piece for them now is certainly a better alternative to getting flea market prices when the whole thing does collapse around them. Mike.

Good point, Mike. I bet there will not be any "new" models in the pipe for quite some time, if ever.

 

[elroy]

Just saw a TV HD-DVD ad on The Daily Show this evening.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I am not buying another HD DVD player as long as there is no admission from Toshiba that the format war is over. As soon as Toshiba announces an end to production and offers the final fire sale liquidation, I would like to pick up either an HD-XA2 or HD-A35 provided I can find either at a low enough price. The current HD DVD marketshare is about 20% worldwide and Warner will not release HD DVD software after May, so it will get even worse than that. The week ended January 13, the Neilsen Videoscan split was 85% Blu-ray. It is past the appropriate time for Toshiba to announce an exit strategy in my opinion.

Chris

 

[rusinurbe]

I am not buying another HD DVD player as long as there is no admission from Toshiba that the format war is over. As soon as Toshiba announces an end to production and offers the final fire sale liquidation, I would like to pick up either an HD-XA2 or HD-A35 provided I can find either at a low enough price. The current HD DVD marketshare is about 20% worldwide and Warner will not release HD DVD software after May, so it will get even worse than that. The week ended January 13, the Neilsen Videoscan split was 85% Blu-ray. It is past the appropriate time for Toshiba to announce an exit strategy in my opinion.

Chris

Ill not be buying Blu ray any day soon.
The best player is a games machine but not the best games machine on the market.
The software is stilll not finalised.
The lack of support in the UK from Sony of SACD seems a backward step. The cost is still to high for discs once you get over any offers, and i cant get any film of any consiquence that i would like on any Hi def format.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Ill not be buying Blu ray any day soon.
The best player is a games machine but not the best games machine on the market.
The software is stilll not finalised.
The lack of support in the UK from Sony of SACD seems a backward step. The cost is still to high for discs once you get over any offers, and i cant get any film of any consiquence that i would like on any Hi def format.

What is not finalized? The PS3 firmware to update the player to Profile 2.0 is ready for rollout and can be downloaded on January 22 according to what I have read. It is also being reported that the PS3 will soon have a firmware update that enables decoding of DTS-HD MA which will make it the best next generation player in my opinion and able to handle all features on all releases, hardly what I would consider not finalized.

The Blu-ray hardware is not priced nearly as low as the HD DVD hardware, I have no idea why Toshiba priced the hardware so low, but all that really accomplished was guaranteeing no other company would build players. It certainly did little for total hardware sales compared to the much more expensive Blu-ray players. The recently announced Panasonic DMP-BD50K will be a final specification Blu-ray player as well but I don't recall when it will be available.

If you don't like the software, games and video, then of course you don't want the player. The Blu-ray hardware is excellent and a great value, the giveaway HD DVD player prices don't change that, just confuses the issue in my opinion.

Chris

 

[Ge Someone]

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/gear/2008-01-14-toshibe-hd-dvd-prices_N.htm
Toshiba is hoping lower prices will help it hang on. Price can be "a deal breaker..."

The price is low enough already, but "software" available in the format is the all iimportant factor. That's why Toshiba is using this time (until May) now Warner still ouputs HD-DVD's.
Consumers interested in HD must first invest in a HD screen, so it's not only the price of the player. And a lot of customers are waiting for players that would play both formats.

 

[Quadzilla]

Ill not be buying Blu ray any day soon.
The best player is a games machine but not the best games machine on the market.
The software is stilll not finalised.
The lack of support in the UK from Sony of SACD seems a backward step. The cost is still to high for discs once you get over any offers, and i cant get any film of any consiquence that i would like on any Hi def format.

A bit of economic perspective ...

Ten years ago, I bought my first DVD player; a Pioneer unit with built-in Dolby Digital decoding. I paid CDN$825 ... a bit of a deal from the $895 sticker price. I paid less than 1/2 of that for my second generation Blu-ray player ... and that was with today's dollars, not 1997 dollars. Even if it never played a Blu-ray disk, it upscales standard DVDs wonderfully. Also, DVDs were as expensive to buy as Blu-ray (or those other) hi-def disks are today ... but in 1997 dollars.

Most smokers pay more for cigarettes in a few months than they would pay for a Blu-ray player.

I could care less about video game consoles. Video games are mindless and childish, but to each his own. I say this because most of the new "features" to be designed into Blu-ray disks are fluff ... interactive games and such. I have a great idea ... let's just watch the friggin' movie! Firmware updates will ensure that I can watch the friggin' movies. Mike.

Zilla-rant over ... look away ... nothing to see here ...

 

[Chris Gerhard]

The price is low enough already, but "software" available in the format is the all iimportant factor. That's why Toshiba is using this time (until May) now Warner still ouputs HD-DVD's.
Consumers interested in HD must first invest in a HD screen, so it's not only the price of the player. And a lot of customers are waiting for players that would play both formats.

I don't buy that consumers interested in either HD disc format must first buy an HDTV. HDTV is growing rapidly in many parts of the world, particularly in the US and owners of HD displays are going to consider buying an HD disc format as soon as the format war ends for the most part. HDTV growth is fueling HD disc adoption, it is not the other way around, there are other ways to see HDTV and those sources are the reason HDTV is enjoying the surprising growth. The group that will buy a dual format player is minuscule, keep in mind that has to be at a price that is Blu-ray plus an amount, not a price that is HD DVD plus, so the price will always be too high for consideration for most all of the market. The only hope for HD on disc is for HD DVD to bow out and soon.

Chris

 

[Quadzilla]

I don't buy that consumers interested in either HD disc format must first buy an HDTV. Chris

I totally agree. An excellent choice for anyone who is considering a new DVD player, regardless of their television. Legacy playback is a major selling feature (notwithstanding the first Sony players that wouldn't play CDs).

We are not talking about thousands of dollars, we are talking about hundreds ... and let's face it, those fifty dollar DVD players are not even on the radar screen for the half-serious consumer.

 

[neil wilkes]

I don't buy that consumers interested in either HD disc format must first buy an HDTV.
Chris

Well how the heck are they supposed to play a BD or an HD DVD then, Chris?
You got to have the TV, or there is nothing to plug the player into.

 

[rusinurbe]

Probably did not make my self clear but the cost of the media is still higher that a standard DVD.
And the choice of films available and this goes for both is relativley small and not the kinds of titles I would want to buy.

Doesnt matter if its Hi Def or not if it the content is not available it doesnt make buying a player very attractive.

The economics of it are simple there is not enough relativly cheep media around to make me want to rush out and buy a Hi Def Player period.

It also does not look like if blu ray is a winner that teh kind of content i want is going to be available for a while as the reproduction costs are to high thanks to Sony keeping everything in house, and excluding companies who produce 'art house' products rather than blockbusters.

now if the HD DVD camp really wanted to screw thinsg up completely for Blu ray they would allow the issues of some free ware/share ware products for authoring and reprduction. however with microsoft in that camp thats not likely to happen as they are as stubborn as Sony over IPR.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Well how the heck are they supposed to play a BD or an HD DVD then, Chris?
You got to have the TV, or there is nothing to plug the player into.

Read my statement, it is the other way around. HDTV has great demand and there is almost no demand for these two formats. It is the other way around, nobody is thinking I want one of these two formats that are currently in a format war and let me see if I can find an HDTV. Over 40% of the US households have an HDTV and a small group is interested in one of the two, but most of that group has no interest until the format war ends. HDTV ownership drives HD disc demand and as soon as HD DVD bows out, I believe signficant Blu-ray growth will begin but nobody will look at Blu-ray as a reason to buy an HDTV.

HDTV market growth will be phenomenal with or without these two formats.

Chris

 

[ssully]

Video games are mindless and childish, but to each his own.

yeah, and all rock music is just barbaric noise.

I very rarely play video games , but I have seen a few that are far from 'mindless'. Even going back to the early days ...('Myst', anyone?)

HDTV ownership drives HD disc demand and as soon as HD DVD bows out, I believe signficant Blu-ray growth will begin but nobody will look at Blu-ray as a reason to buy an HDTV.

People are buying HDTVs to take advantage of HDTV broadcasts, which are quite visibly superior to standard def broadcast (especially when the HDTV signal is not overcompressed). Some HDTVs also do pretty good 'upconverting' of standard def broadcasts. The difference between SD DVD and high def DVD, on the other hand, is more subtle...and most DVD players already do pretty good upconvert of SD DVD.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

yeah, and all rock music is just barbaric noise.

I very rarely play video games , but I have seen a few that are far from 'mindless'. Even going back to the early days ...('Myst', anyone?)



People are buying HDTVs to take advantage of HDTV broadcasts, which are quite visibly superior to standard def broadcast (especially when the HDTV signal is not overcompressed). Some HDTVs also do pretty good 'upconverting' of standard def broadcasts. The difference between SD DVD and high def DVD, on the other hand, is more subtle...and most DVD players already do pretty good upconvert of SD DVD.

Yes although I would not use the term subtle to descriibe the difference between DVD and either of these two new formats. I think easily noticeable would be better, but it is really in terms of DVD being terrific and HD disc being better. How much it matters is up to each individual but what is clear after two years of this is that as long as we have two formats, neither will do much in terms of marketshare.

The point I was trying to make is if someone is interested in either new format, they already own an HDTV. The driving force for wanting an HDTV is any number of other things, football, basketball, network shows, HDNet Movies, you name it, you just won't find either next generation format on the list.

Chris

 

[ct]

I have been on the fence. As an early DVD-audio; SACD purchaser, I find the format wars as offensive as anyone else. Anyway - I do find HD Satellite Movies great; and perceive blu ray has won. But: I have a 2 year old HDTV, 1080i capable; a Pioneer Elite DVD player which upscales to 1080i; and a Pioneer Elite Receiver with an I link between it and the player.

The new Pioneer blu player's do not support I link. The place I purchased my equipment said upgrading to blu ray would have marginal benefits to me, considering my equipment. I thought to myself, perhaps adding an inexpensive blue ray player might be worth the cost. But so far looking at the Samsung and Sony options I am tending to keep waiting.

Any suggestions? Oh, this would be an add on, no way I'm giving up my Pioneer elite DVD player with it's great Hi Rez Music capabilities.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I have been on the fence. As an early DVD-audio; SACD purchaser, I find the format wars as offensive as anyone else. Anyway - I do find HD Satellite Movies great; and perceive blu ray has won. But: I have a 2 year old HDTV, 1080i capable; a Pioneer Elite DVD player which upscales to 1080i; and a Pioneer Elite Receiver with an I link between it and the player.

The new Pioneer blu player's do not support I link. The place I purchased my equipment said upgrading to blu ray would have marginal benefits to me, considering my equipment. I thought to myself, perhaps adding an inexpensive blue ray player might be worth the cost. But so far looking at the Samsung and Sony options I am tending to keep waiting.

Any suggestions? Oh, this would be an add on, no way I'm giving up my Pioneer elite DVD player with it's great Hi Rez Music capabilities.

I think the benefit with a 1080i display is more than marginal, but of course that is just a subjective term that means different things to different people. If you don't want the PS3, waiting is a great option now as prices will drop and the new players will be out in a few months. I am also confident that either Blu-ray has won and HD DVD will disappear or at a minimum, Blu-ray will survive for years. HD DVD has no market presence anywhere in the world, it makes SACD of a couple of years ago look mainstream.

Which Pioneer Elite universal player do you have?

Chris

 

[ct]

In our TV room I have a Sony Grand Wega LCD projection TV; Pioneer DV-59-Avi Elite player; linked with I link cable to a Pioneer Elite VSX-56TXi receiver. In our living room I have an Elite DV-47Ai DVD player connected to an Onkyo receiver with 6 analogue cables.

When I first started this new exercise I was hoping the pioneer would continue their I linkage, as the receiver does not accept HDMI cables. And the Sony Grand Wega only has one, which I am using with with the DV59Avi. I find all the Pioneer equipment exceptional. I started out with a Toshiba DVD-A player which eventually went bad; then a samsung universal player which also had issues. I'm very happy with the Elite's; unfortunately the 1080p standard is not supported by my equipment - I suspect not too many others have the newer equipment either.