YES - Tales From Topographic Oceans 5.1 - Reality

[4-earredwonder]

OK QQ'ers... I apologize for a somewhat off-topic question but I need your help. I have always bought these release (KC, SW, Yes, etc, etc.) from Burning Shed. They would normally take one week to receive (here in DFW, TX) and as they somewhat anticipated this lead-time would ship early and I would get the releases close to the official date (+- one day). My order previous to this (4 1/2) took three weeks. I pre-ordered TFTO the first day it was available. I got my "posting" notice from BS on 10/03. Just got today's mail and still nothing. I know BS has no control over this (other than offering a premium shipping service which I would be happy to partake of if available). But it is frustrating knowing I could have ordered it from a domestic source and probably had it by now. So the question is, is there a domestic source that offers reliable shipping (FedEx, UPS, etc.) that hits the release dates of these Panegyric releases??? Who do you use? Thanks in advance and yes, I hate the shipping notice posts as much as the next guy but I'm desperate, lol.

I ordered TALES from Deep Discount when they had their 15% off sale ($25.87 delivered) and received it two days ago but ImportCD currently has it for about the same price and if you pay their $2.99 s/h charge they usually expedite the order.http://www.importcds.com/tales-from-topographic-oceans-expanded-edition/633367901026. Import usually has the best prices on Audio Fidelity and MoFi SACD discs, as well.

 

[Bill Mac]

When I preordered the TFTO DVD-A from importcds the price was $23.99. When it became available the price dropped to $20.99. I emailed importcds about the price difference and actually got a $3 credit! I didn't think my inquiry would go any where but it did .

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I ordered TALES from Deep Discount when they had their 15% off sale ($25.89 delivered) and received it two days ago but ImportCD currently has it for about the same price and if you pay their $2.99 s/h charge they usually expedite the order.http://www.importcds.com/tales-from-topographic-oceans-expanded-edition/633367901026. Import usually has the best prices on Audio Fidelity and MoFi discs, as well.

ImportCD doesn't expedite my orders when I pay for shipping, and I seem to pay it every time. Jberg - I just got my shipping confirmation from ImportCD form. I placed my order about 10 days ago for the bluray but up till now this title was "out of stock" there. I assume they have stock now. They ship out of KY I believe. Its tough to beat their prices.

 

[4-earredwonder]

ImportCD doesn't expedite my orders when I pay for shipping, and I seem to pay it every time. Jberg - I just got my shipping confirmation from ImportCD form. I placed my order about 10 days ago for the bluray but up till now this title was "out of stock" there. I assume they have stock now. They ship out of KY I believe. Its tough to beat their prices.

When ImportCD has their INFREQUENT 10% off sales, shipping takes forever but when I do pay for s/h the parcel usually gets to my home in New York within three days. I'm not one of those people who need their music day/date of release and I am reluctant to pay for 'expedited' s/h. I'd rather 'invest' the money in new audio equipment which I've been doing on a pretty regular basis.

BTW, I voted a solid 10 for TALES. Another extraordinary Steve Wilson remix.........the patron saint of remixing!

 

[ProgRules]

Domestically, all I know about for sure for day of release deliv. is amazon IF you have Prime. Bullmoose is a possibility, I seem to recall they pre-ship w/ enough lead time, but I'm not sure. Worth checking out that site.

 

[drphibes]

Declan is a solid fellow. He helped me out when one of the Starless Blu-Ray discs had an authoring defect. I'd take him at his word.

 

[Frogmort]

Finally received mine today.

[video=youtube;qRGuf81DAXg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRGuf81DAXg[/video]

 

[jaypfunk]

Many are saying this is SWs best 5.1 mix yet. While totally amazing and I do give it a 10 but I have to say that KC Larks' Tongues In Aspic is far better than this one sound wise. that one is just perfect in every way. The clarity, the power, the dynamics are all fucking sick!! We must also keep in mind that these mixes are always a result of what SW had to work with. LTIA is clearly a less cluttered recording than TFTO so that has a lot to do with it as well.

 

[jberq]

I got Tales 10 days ago.
The package was pristine.
Burning Shed is the bomb.
Whaaaaa:chill

To those of you who responded with with solid information........ Thank You. I will explore these options and adjust my buying habits in the future.

 

[Failed Muso]

:brewI've just seen on SH a quote from Burning Shed/Panegyric explaining the wrong tracks issue, <snip>

That's good enough for me

 

[himey]

I just listened to the TFTO 5.1 mix (DVD-A) and it really is an outstanding mix ! I've listened to the CD a few times in past year and it never sounded that great. But with the new 5.1 mix from Steven Wilson it creates an entirely different listening experience! As a follow up to TFTO I'm listening to Fleetwood Mac's Mirage 5.1 mix. Not even close in overall SQ and is a bit of a let down after listening to TFTO.

Welcome to the quad forum sir! I know we have disagreed on a couple things over at the other place, but I assure you, we have more in common than we differ. Honestly, I was only feuding with you because I wanted you to squeeze every ounce of sound enjoyment possible. Nothing more. I am way more laid back here, as is everyone else. Peace.

 

[ProgRules]

Many are saying this is SWs best 5.1 mix yet. While totally amazing and I do give it a 10 but I have to say that KC Larks' Tongues In Aspic is far better than this one sound wise. that one is just perfect in every way. The clarity, the power, the dynamics are all fucking sick!! We must also keep in mind that these mixes are always a result of what SW had to work with. LTIA is clearly a less cluttered recording than TFTO so that has a lot to do with it as well.

Yes, Tales is indeed very cluttered. I think that is one of the many strengths of this 5.1 mix- how all that info has room to spread out and the intricacies are more apparent. And b/c there's so much more going on and SW really makes all the different elements sing, that's one of the reasons I feel this is his- or anyone's best.

That being said, I think people's preferences in surround mixes is as much about how much they love a particular album as it is how great the 5.1 mix is. I also think one can't fully appreciate how good a surround mix is unless they were intimately familiar w/ the original mix. Which is why I'll never fully appreciate LTiA's great mix, since my 1st exposure to that was SW's 5.1 mix.

 

[ProgRules]

So- anyone want to discuss this great album in detail? I'll start and see if anyone joins in...

A brief look at Jon's (w/ some contributions from Steve) lyrics:

There are some words that Jon uses (some would say overuses) often throughout his career: earth, mountain, river, ocean, starlight, eyes of child, etc. I think he uses these often b/c for him they are symbols of fundamental concepts in his belief system. The one word he uses probably more than any is Sun. And I think this album highlights what the sun represents to him. It is the source: of Light; of energy; of Life. It is his symbol for deity- THE higher power.

But not only do we receive from it, we are part of it- "Nous somme du soleil' We are of the Sun. We are given Life, energy and Light, but what we do w/ that determines how these divine powers are manifested on this planet. We are an intrinsic part of the divine; we are part of the creation. This is echoed in his later work when he sings of how we create our own heaven.

This concept of receiving, modifying and giving back has a nice parallel to how I have long viewed a live music performance. The band gives us this amazing energy; we receive it, magnify it and return it back to the band to use as fuel for more energy. This type of feedback loop is one of the fundamental processes of how life works in my philosophy, in which energy is one of the fundamental building blocks. We all need energy to survive. Physical energy to fuel the body; mental energy to fuel the mind; spiritual energy to feed the soul. Our choices in how we acquire the energy we need as well as what we convert that energy into defines our lives and our contribution to the ongoing process of creation.

How does Jon think we should use that energy? Nous sommes du soleil, we love when we play. We're just supposed to have fun with it! And when we do, we are engaging in the act of love. And the connotation of youth that goes along w/ playing are very important, b/c that is the time in our life when our play focuses on creating. Receive the divine, have fun w/ it and make something pleasing w/ it. Here's your cosmic building blocks- what sort of structure can you build with them?

Of course, we can spend energy creating things that are for the most part self-serving, but these will give back little, so in the great feedback loop, we will then receive less. But if what we build focuses outwards and benefits the many, we will be making our feedback loop very strong. "We receive all we venture to give."

Jon comes up w/ a nifty plan on this album not to overuse the word sun; he presents it in different languages. In the Ancient, we are probing back through history to see how these early humans built the bed from which the flowers of civilization grew.

As one with the knowledge and magic of the source (these early folks worshiped the sun and appreciated it's working on a fundamental level)
Attuned to the majesty of music (music represents the interplay of energy, the inter-connected feedback loops)
They marched as one with earth (as one=unity, marching implies being in step w/, but also moving w/ strong confidence and purpose)

After this opening verse comes Jon's use of the sun in many languages
Sol, Dhoop
Sun
Ilios
Naytheet
Ah Kin
Saule
Tonatiuh
Qurax
Gunes, Grian
Surie
Ir
Samse

In this case, Jon's philosophy of using his voice as an instrument is clearly evident. The words sound like nonsense- how many people would recognize that this was sun in different languages? I know it had to be pointed out to me. But they are very rhythmic (connoting the march). And I think it's telling what comes after the march:

So the flowering creativity of life wove its web face to face with
the shallow
And their gods sought out and conquered

I love that first line- the flowering creativity of life! That is such an evocative image, it stands as a perfect example of creativity- how many mental pictures do these few words conjure? For me, there are such a myriad of pictures generated in my mind it is like an "ever-opening flower" (from Awaken), so the connections deepen. And this creativity, whose energy spreads out in a web-like fashion, confronts the shallowness of primal existence head-on.

But the next line is rather jarring in its implied violence. Conquering? But what's doing the conquering? their gods (small g and plural). Gods came into human existence to help us explain, describe and find ways to deal with the forces at work in our world. So gods are rational inventions. Using reason to direct creativity enabled the earliest humans to come to terms with and harness the fierce forces of nature and overcome them to survive, thrive and build. What was a shallow existence is overthrown and is made into a more pleasing, less dangerous existence which only engenders an environment conducive to even more creativity/growth. As for the implied violence? There can be no creation w/o destruction. But the conquering is not foremost of a physical kind; it is the supremity of how humans can use creativity and reason to become masters of nature and turn it to our uses.

OK- a few thoughts from me. Anybody want to play?

 

[user 1679]

Mine arrived from Deep Discount earlier this week and I am *really* hoping I can get some alone/quiet time to give it its due attention this weekend....all the great comments so far, my own anticipation...want to sit back and immerse myself in it.

 

[stormchaser]

Finally got my copy (not stolen as I had first thought, but post office botched the delivery). Love it.

 

[webofsound]

So- anyone want to discuss this great album in detail? I'll start and see if anyone joins in...

A brief look at Jon's (w/ some contributions from Steve) lyrics:

There are some words that Jon uses (some would say overuses) often throughout his career: earth, mountain, river, ocean, starlight, eyes of child, etc. I think he uses these often b/c for him they are symbols of fundamental concepts in his belief system. The one word he uses probably more than any is Sun. And I think this album highlights what the sun represents to him. It is the source: of Light; of energy; of Life. It is his symbol for deity- THE higher power.

But not only do we receive from it, we are part of it- "Nous somme du soleil' We are of the Sun. We are given Life, energy and Light, but what we do w/ that determines how these divine powers are manifested on this planet. We are an intrinsic part of the divine; we are part of the creation. This is echoed in his later work when he sings of how we create our own heaven.

This concept of receiving, modifying and giving back has a nice parallel to how I have long viewed a live music performance. The band gives us this amazing energy; we receive it, magnify it and return it back to the band to use as fuel for more energy. This type of feedback loop is one of the fundamental processes of how life works in my philosophy, in which energy is one of the fundamental building blocks. We all need energy to survive. Physical energy to fuel the body; mental energy to fuel the mind; spiritual energy to feed the soul. Our choices in how we acquire the energy we need as well as what we convert that energy into defines our lives and our contribution to the ongoing process of creation.

How does Jon think we should use that energy? Nous sommes du soleil, we love when we play. We're just supposed to have fun with it! And when we do, we are engaging in the act of love. And the connotation of youth that goes along w/ playing are very important, b/c that is the time in our life when our play focuses on creating. Receive the divine, have fun w/ it and make something pleasing w/ it. Here's your cosmic building blocks- what sort of structure can you build with them?

Of course, we can spend energy creating things that are for the most part self-serving, but these will give back little, so in the great feedback loop, we will then receive less. But if what we build focuses outwards and benefits the many, we will be making our feedback loop very strong. "We receive all we venture to give."

Jon comes up w/ a nifty plan on this album not to overuse the word sun; he presents it in different languages. In the Ancient, we are probing back through history to see how these early humans built the bed from which the flowers of civilization grew.

As one with the knowledge and magic of the source (these early folks worshiped the sun and appreciated it's working on a fundamental level)
Attuned to the majesty of music (music represents the interplay of energy, the inter-connected feedback loops)
They marched as one with earth (as one=unity, marching implies being in step w/, but also moving w/ strong confidence and purpose)

After this opening verse comes Jon's use of the sun in many languages
Sol, Dhoop
Sun
Ilios
Naytheet
Ah Kin
Saule
Tonatiuh
Qurax
Gunes, Grian
Surie
Ir
Samse

In this case, Jon's philosophy of using his voice as an instrument is clearly evident. The words sound like nonsense- how many people would recognize that this was sun in different languages? I know it had to be pointed out to me. But they are very rhythmic (connoting the march). And I think it's telling what comes after the march:

So the flowering creativity of life wove its web face to face with
the shallow
And their gods sought out and conquered

I love that first line- the flowering creativity of life! That is such an evocative image, it stands as a perfect example of creativity- how many mental pictures do these few words conjure? For me, there are such a myriad of pictures generated in my mind it is like an "ever-opening flower" (from Awaken), so the connections deepen. And this creativity, whose energy spreads out in a web-like fashion, confronts the shallowness of primal existence head-on.

But the next line is rather jarring in its implied violence. Conquering? But what's doing the conquering? their gods (small g and plural). Gods came into human existence to help us explain, describe and find ways to deal with the forces at work in our world. So gods are rational inventions. Using reason to direct creativity enabled the earliest humans to come to terms with and harness the fierce forces of nature and overcome them to survive, thrive and build. What was a shallow existence is overthrown and is made into a more pleasing, less dangerous existence which only engenders an environment conducive to even more creativity/growth. As for the implied violence? There can be no creation w/o destruction. But the conquering is not foremost of a physical kind; it is the supremity of how humans can use creativity and reason to become masters of nature and turn it to our uses.

OK- a few thoughts from me. Anybody want to play?

Wow ! I feel your thoughts here are very much in line with what Jon Anderson was thinking in creating the lyrics and concept for the album


I feel all the 70s Yes albums have elements of spirituality (In the music as much as the lyrics) about them but each one in its own way; The Yes Album (Think Starship Trooper) had a futuristic sci-fi/spiritual aspect to it; where human understanding/exploration of the universe is a platform for increased spiritual awareness ; Fragile and CTTE looked at spirituality through man and his relationship with the natural world (Especially CTTE, with its 'foresty' and organic ambience in which the listener experiences a connection to a pristine wilderness of unbelievable majesty and vastness); Relayer was a spiritual quest seen through the struggle between good and evil in a LOTR type fantasy world (The cover art helps, but it's really within the music and lyrics too!). With GFTO, spirituality is viewed through several broader concepts; Human endeavour (Going For The One) Love (Turn of the Century) imagination and exploration (Wondrous Stories), and a quest for self-knowledge and self realisation - a more universal and general approach to spirituality (Awaken/Parallels).


And as for Tales, I always felt that each movement had a sort of textural signature that roughly corresponded to different physical environments. TRSOG was a misty, aboreal, impossibly huge rainbow eden; TR was a crystalline, shimmering, endless ocean, TA was harsh, cracked earth and the first flowerings of ancient civilisations within forbidding places, and their connection to 'The Source'. Ritual was a celebration of life, a communal gathering of reconciliation and joy with visions of some pristine atoll.

However, beneath the surface of these worldly physical associations, that come to mind (or rather through them) are deeper spiritual associations (which are touched on in the liner notes) of connection to something more profound which I think is best illustrated by the amazing conclusion to the TRSOG that occurs around 21:28, the phrase "I/we must have waited all my life for this moment". The way the lyrics and music play off each other here is incredible. It's difficult to pick out the detail in the somewhat muddy original stereo mix, but this section would have to be a contender for one of the most elaborate vocal arrangements ever. It seems to be a canon of many voices; (maybe 10?!) the incredible contrapuntal complexity creates a harmonic structure of astonishing beauty where the voices cascade over each other, the entry of each voice only compounding the beauty of the preceding one. This to me is the 'ever opening flower' described in the liner notes. The way the word 'moment' flows in and out of the texture demonstrates how each moment cannot be seen in isolation. Past, present and future only make complete sense when viewed as one harmonious, timeless whole.


There is a book called 'Progressive Rock Reconsidered' edited by Kevin Holm Hudson, which contains an essay on the lyrical and musical concepts within Tales, and touches on some things I mentioned above. I spent many an afternoon leafing through it as a university student. Definitely an interesting read.


Anyway that's enough from me, happy listening

 

[ProgRules]

Wow ! I feel your thoughts here are very much in line with what Jon Anderson was thinking in creating the lyrics and concept for the album


I feel all the 70s Yes albums have elements of spirituality (In the music as much as the lyrics) about them but each one in its own way; The Yes Album (Think Starship Trooper) had a futuristic sci-fi/spiritual aspect to it; where human understanding/exploration of the universe is a platform for increased spiritual awareness ; Fragile and CTTE looked at spirituality through man and his relationship with the natural world (Especially CTTE, with its 'foresty' and organic ambience in which the listener experiences a connection to a pristine wilderness of unbelievable majesty and vastness); Relayer was a spiritual quest seen through the struggle between good and evil in a LOTR type fantasy world (The cover art helps, but it's really within the music and lyrics too!). With GFTO, spirituality is viewed through several broader concepts; Human endeavour (Going For The One) Love (Turn of the Century) imagination and exploration (Wondrous Stories), and a quest for self-knowledge and self realisation - a more universal and general approach to spirituality (Awaken/Parallels).


And as for Tales, I always felt that each movement had a sort of textural signature that roughly corresponded to different physical environments. TRSOG was a misty, aboreal, impossibly huge rainbow eden; TR was a crystalline, shimmering, endless ocean, TA was harsh, cracked earth and the first flowerings of ancient civilisations within forbidding places, and their connection to 'The Source'. Ritual was a celebration of life, a communal gathering of reconciliation and joy with visions of some pristine atoll.

However, beneath the surface of these worldly physical associations, that come to mind (or rather through them) are deeper spiritual associations (which are touched on in the liner notes) of connection to something more profound which I think is best illustrated by the amazing conclusion to the TRSOG that occurs around 21:28, the phrase "I/we must have waited all my life for this moment". The way the lyrics and music play off each other here is incredible. It's difficult to pick out the detail in the somewhat muddy original stereo mix, but this section would have to be a contender for one of the most elaborate vocal arrangements ever. It seems to be a canon of many voices; (maybe 10?!) the incredible contrapuntal complexity creates a harmonic structure of astonishing beauty where the voices cascade over each other, the entry of each voice only compounding the beauty of the preceding one. This to me is the 'ever opening flower' described in the liner notes. The way the word 'moment' flows in and out of the texture demonstrates how each moment cannot be seen in isolation. Past, present and future only make complete sense when viewed as one harmonious, timeless whole.


There is a book called 'Progressive Rock Reconsidered' edited by Kevin Holm Hudson, which contains an essay on the lyrical and musical concepts within Tales, and touches on some things I mentioned above. I spent many an afternoon leafing through it as a university student. Definitely an interesting read.


Anyway that's enough from me, happy listening

Beautiful post- thanks so much for playing.

I totally agree that 70's Yes had a strong theme of spirituality running through their music- one of the things that separated them from most rock bands and one of many reasons their music was so attractive to me. I believe one of Jon's purposes is to celebrate and illuminate the divine, free from any specific Religion, but drawing from many different religious traditions. An attempt to de-insitutionalize religion, if you will. I know one of the effects CttE had on me was to start me seeking and free me from the strong Christian perspective in which I'd been raised and appreciate the Truth and beauty inherent in all religious traditions. Jon has been like a spiritual mentor to me, through his music.

I agree w/ all the examples you listed and agree w/ very well-stated descriptions, but would add many more to that list- though you pointed out most of the main ones. It was there from the beginning: the first album's "Survival" deals w/ the most basic spiritual question- why do bad things have to happen to the good? using the analogy of a baby bird dying. In Fragile, we have man dealing w/ death in SSotS, where-in Yes goes against the grain and actually kills the song's protagonist. I've always found PC, AGP and YIND very spiritual- the latter using the analogy of a Vietnam vet to illustrate self-acceptance in the face of some dastardly deeds done. Even that little ditty A Venture- highly under-rated track imo- speaks of a man's worth despite having a serious affliction (alcoholism).

CttE is filled w/ spirituality, from the TT's illustration of finding enlightenment, to AU&I, where I always felt that the you referred to is God (much to the consternation of my girlfriend, who thought it should be she- but the fact that it could be both a love song and a song of devotion to deity illustrates the many layers inherent in most Yessongs) to an amazingly evocative image of the crucifixion in SK: "cold, stainless nail, torn through the distance of man, as they regard the summit."

I love that paragraph on the textural signature's- very eloquent and right in line w/ my impressions! Ritual is indeed about celebrating life and Jon refers to such and also how it's a ritual when the band performs. I've always felt the ritualistic nature of great musical performances, where there is a common purpose among a large group, celebrating life and losing identity/ego in the communion w/ the crowd and band/orchestra. And there's that feedback loop mentioned earlier. Some of my most profound spiritual experiences have been at concerts.

And Yes, that moment of ultimate realization is so deep and well-portrayed in TRSOG; it shines even brighter in the new 5.1 mix. Great description of what's happening vocally in that section! An ever-opening flower indeed! (I had forgotten that was in the liner notes- always think Awaken when I hear those words)

My all-time fave Yes book, Mosbos' Yes, but what does it mean?, has a chapter entitled "Tales of Beethoven's Symphonies," where he compares Tales to a Beethoven symphony, has had a deep impact on how I view Tales- and the book as a whole has added much to my understanding of Yesmusic. And I googled Progressive Rock Reconsidered before I wrote this. Going for some hefty prices these days, but I'll find a copy.

I really appreciate your thoughts and info- thanks!

 

[jonovox]

Hey everyone, I hate to add another complaint onto the pile for such a fantastic release, but has anybody else noticed that really strange extra organ note at 2:05 in the new mixes of The Remembering? It's the last note of the first half of that melody, and it gets doubled halfway through the note. I can't hear any trace of it in the original mix or the Rhino remaster, but it's there in both SW's stereo and 5.1 mixes. It's really quite obvious in the 5.1 mix since the organ is in the back throughout and the extra note comes out the front for some reason... It really sounds like an error in an otherwise flawless mix.

I'm really glad that there are people out there who love this album as much as I do ! I wouldn't say it's their best album, but it's certainly my favorite and Steven Wilson really makes it shine in 5.1, as always.

 

[Frogmort]

I listened to this once all the way through the other day with my old friend who originally turned me on to Yes about 30 years ago. He talked too much, but it was mostly about the music. Now I'm listening to it by myself for the first time and I'm noticing tons of things I didn't the other day.

 

[Frogmort]

Hey everyone, I hate to add another complaint onto the pile for such a fantastic release, but has anybody else noticed that really strange extra organ note at 2:05 in the new mixes of The Remembering? It's the last note of the first half of that melody, and it gets doubled halfway through the note. I can't hear any trace of it in the original mix or the Rhino remaster, but it's there in both SW's stereo and 5.1 mixes. It's really quite obvious in the 5.1 mix since the organ is in the back throughout and the extra note comes out the front for some reason... It really sounds like an error in an otherwise flawless mix.

Welcome to the site jonovox! I just checked it several times and didn't hear anything that stood out to me. Track 2 right?

Edit: Actually I'm listening to a flac rip and at 2:05 it sounds like the organ gets doubled to another channel and gets just a bit louder right there to me.

Re-Edit: I checked both the LPCM and the DTS-HD and they both have the same spot at 2:05 where the keyboard gets slightly louder. I was just past that spot in my second listen through and didn't notice it though.