New AVR ordered...

[Clint Eastwood]

Eh....I'm still confused...maybe even more. So, the height inputs on the back of my Denon have nothing to do with Atmos? I mean, my Denon X4000 did not have height inputs, nor was it Atmos....now I buy an Atmos receiver...and suddenly it has height inputs.

You are overthinking it...yes you use those inputs for your "atmos" speakers...but don't get caught up in the terminology for a moment...you can use those inputs(heights) for more applications...not just atmos...the concept of speakers firing up toward the ceiling is one way that is advertised as being the "atmos" way...IMO that is because a lot of people couldn't place them in or on the ceiling...which is more effective...when you merely put those speakers that fire upward on top of your speaker you are dependent on the ceiling "bounce" method...the expectation that the ceiling will deliver that bounced sound back to the listener...which is problematic...it seldom happens that you have the ideal surface for the bounced sound to reach you...and doesn't account for different room configurations....so the short explanation is that putting them as you have them probably won't yield the best results...


If you decided to put those speakers higher up on the wall or in the ceiling..you would need to adjust the audyssey parameters...

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

I've been reading a bit and now I'm thoroughly confused.....in some write ups, a person says "they can be used as Atmos apeakers or as Height speakers"

Huh? What is the difference?

Dolby Atmos and DTS X use a different speaker configuration than Auro. There is a work around for this but you would be better choosing which codec you’d likely be using more, Dolby Atmos/DTS X or Auro-3D.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Dolby states that the upfiring speakers should be no more than half way up to the ceiling. Or, is that half way down? ?

I get better results with mine closer to two-thirds the way up. Maybe it’s because my speakers are wide dispersion.

To be candid...the whole idea of up firing speakers is just marketing from Dolby...they know a lot of people can't or won't put speakers in or on the ceiling...all these suggestions are general (like the 45 degree deal for on the wall applications) statements because inside your home is not the same for everybody...but it doesn't take a science degree to realize that expecting a speaker... pointing up toward your ceiling.. to bounce that sound back to you the same as it was originally is not going to be effective...to make it work would take the right size and shape of room and a lot of tweaking...which is unrealistic..

Actually what Dolby does...when you use the up firing"atmos enabled" speakers...is create the "illusion" of the sound coming from above you...and although Dolby hates the comparison to sound bars...that's in principle what they do..only they do it differently in a technical sense...

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

Oops! I hit submit too fast.

Gene, when you run the wizard and get to the loudspeaker configuration, choose 5.1 configuration with, depending on if you have two or four upfiring modules, ceiling speakers. Or, if you already ran the wizard, go into the menu, choose speakers/amp assign.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

So, I ran an 8 position Audyssey and it did a super nice job. One of the few times I didn't feel the need to tweek. Sounds awesome honestly. So, the new Denon is stupid easy as the GUI setup literally walks you through each step...much more detailed than my previous one. So, I put in INXS Atmos and I honestly wasn't that thrilled. I mean, yeah....sounded different...but not night and day. Then I put in REM and it had much more action in the Atmos speakers. I could tell....thing is.....if you choose Atmos right off the start....I dunno. It sounded great...but I wasn't like....WOW, Holy shit...

YOu know, like when I went from Dolby 5.1 to DTH HD Master...that was a holy shit moment. This is more subtle. IMO. It's fuller....I can sense that. Regardless, I'm very happy with my new upgrade. It's fun, and I bet Atmos movies are silly fun. I'm gonna check out Roger Waters in a bit.

I think the Inxs Kick Atmos mix sounds like a regular 5.1 Mix with a little something extra. It’s kind of like when I listen to my stereo mixes with the Dolby Surround upmixer. The R.E.M. disc is a different story. It sounds like I’m in a cocoon. I have yet to play “The Wall” live BD in Atmos but the best Atmos mix I have hands down is the Kraftwerk BD. I just wished I liked the music more. I’d be spinning it non-stop...techno-pop. ?

 

[4-earredwonder]

So, I ran an 8 position Audyssey and it did a super nice job. One of the few times I didn't feel the need to tweek. Sounds awesome honestly. So, the new Denon is stupid easy as the GUI setup literally walks you through each step...much more detailed than my previous one. So, I put in INXS Atmos and I honestly wasn't that thrilled. I mean, yeah....sounded different...but not night and day. Then I put in REM and it had much more action in the Atmos speakers. I could tell....thing is.....if you choose Atmos right off the start....I dunno. It sounded great...but I wasn't like....WOW, Holy shit...

YOu know, like when I went from Dolby 5.1 to DTH HD Master...that was a holy shit moment. This is more subtle. IMO. It's fuller....I can sense that. Regardless, I'm very happy with my new upgrade. It's fun, and I bet Atmos movies are silly fun. I'm gonna check out Roger Waters in a bit.

Gene, first and foremost congrats. Secondly, give the system/speakers at least a week to FULLY break in. It will sound better.+ I would also try spiking the Klipsch Atmos speakers to decouple it from the main speakers. They will sound better. No shit, Sherlock!:banana:

I agree with Clint that in ceiling speakers SUCK. A friend of mine used them for rears in his high end [?] system and they were dwarfed by the fronts and you really can't image them as they're in a fixed position and the sound was DIFFUSE as hell.

Gene, maybe you should invest in some ATMOS Blu Rays and if you don't like the faux height sound of the Atmos speakers, try experimenting with a different placement.* Just a suggestion. BTW, is Lamar:kitty: impressed? If not, a little organic KOSMIC catnip will put him in the mood! http://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnj56yKQZz1ql3k2io1_500.gif

+Anyone who doesn't believe in component break in periods is, shall we say, a MESHUGANEH:yikes

*would small shelves in the center of the room ABOVE/in line with the 'sweet spot' be feasible?

 

[Spock]

I think the Inxs Kick Atmos mix sounds like a regular 5.1 Mix with a little something extra. It’s kind of like when I listen to my stereo mixes with the Dolby Surround upmixer. The R.E.M. disc is a different story. It sounds like I’m in a cocoon. I have yet to play “The Wall” live BD in Atmos but the best Atmos mix I have hands down is the Kraftwerk BD. I just wished I liked the music more. I’d be spinning it non-stop...techno-pop. ?

That is strange? On my system Kick sounds nothing like a regular 5.1 mix. It's a very fun and active Atmos mix - with constant support from the ceiling speakers with a lot of discrete elements. Some panning and ping pong effects in the ceiling speakers too.

In fact the 2-3 first times I listened to it - I thought it was a little bit to much discreteness from the ceiling - I mean panning guitars from the sky (and vocals) ???? But after I got used to it - I like it more and more. Very cool.

 

[Spock]

So, I ran an 8 position Audyssey and it did a super nice job. One of the few times I didn't feel the need to tweek. Sounds awesome honestly. So, the new Denon is stupid easy as the GUI setup literally walks you through each step...much more detailed than my previous one. So, I put in INXS Atmos and I honestly wasn't that thrilled. I mean, yeah....sounded different...but not night and day. Then I put in REM and it had much more action in the Atmos speakers. I could tell....thing is.....if you choose Atmos right off the start....I dunno. It sounded great...but I wasn't like....WOW, Holy shit...

YOu know, like when I went from Dolby 5.1 to DTH HD Master...that was a holy shit moment. This is more subtle. IMO. It's fuller....I can sense that. Regardless, I'm very happy with my new upgrade. It's fun, and I bet Atmos movies are silly fun. I'm gonna check out Roger Waters in a bit.

Sad to hear that Atmos did not give that Holy Shit (haha love the expression!!!) moment :howl

In one way I am not surprised. Because I had my first Atmos ceiling speaker set up - with them firing straight down - and that was not giving me any Holy Shit moments - far from it. But I think that even that setup would be better than upward-firing speakers?

The big and desireable HOLY SHIT moment came when I directed the 4 ceiling speakers directly on axis to the sweetspot.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Gene, first and foremost congrats. Secondly, give the system/speakers at least a week to FULLY break in. It will sound better.+ I would also try spiking the Klipsch Atmos speakers to decouple it from the main speakers. They will sound better. No shit, Sherlock!:banana:

+Anyone who doesn't believe in component break in periods is, shall we say, a MESHUGANEH:yikes

Somehow I doubt that GOS will notice any significant improvement by further decoupling his Atmos speakers from is mains, being that the system is partly based on the idea of bouncing sound off the ceiling. The little rubber feet that are probably on the bottom of the Atmos units will prevent any audible vibrations, and those tiny cones aren't going to generate a lot of cabinet vibration in the first place.

Transducers like phono cartridges and loudspeakers can have a break in period because they have moving parts. To a much lesser extent, tube electronics can have a break in period due to the heating and aging of the tubes, which changes them.

Solid state electronics do not break-in. If the sound of a solid state amplifier changes over time, either the listeners hearing or the device itself is experiencing a problem.

The most audacious example of this kind of crazy talk is alluding to break-in periods for interconnects and power cables.

Call me meshuganeh...

 

[4-earredwonder]

Somehow I doubt that GOS will notice any significant improvement by further decoupling his Atmos speakers from is mains, being that the system is partly based on the idea of bouncing sound off the ceiling. The little rubber feet that are probably on the bottom of the Atmos units will prevent any audible vibrations, and those tiny cones aren't going to generate a lot of cabinet vibration in the first place.

Transducers like phono cartridges and loudspeakers can have a break in period because they have moving parts. To a much lesser extent, tube electronics can have a break in period due to the heating and aging of the tubes, which changes them.

Solid state electronics do not break-in. If the sound of a solid state amplifier changes over time, either the listeners hearing or the device itself is experiencing a problem.

The most audacious example of this kind of crazy talk is alluding to break-in periods for interconnects and power cables.

Call me meshuganeh...

Time WILL TELL. Hardly a placebo effect, I am a firm believer in break in periods......but I suppose, to each his own. It certainly doesn't cost you anything but a little patience. My eyes and ears DON'T lie.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

My eyes and ears DON'T lie.

Neither does scientific fact. But your mind can lie to you.

And that's my last statement on this nonsense.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Sad to hear that Atmos did not give that Holy Shit (haha love the expression!!!) moment :howl

In one way I am not surprised. Because I had my first Atmos ceiling speaker set up - with them firing straight down - and that was not giving me any Holy Shit moments - far from it. But I think that even that setup would be better than upward-firing speakers?

The big and desireable HOLY SHIT moment came when I directed the 4 ceiling speakers directly on axis to the sweetspot.

I don't have any experience with an Atmos system, but it does make sense that the ceiling speakers would work best when aimed at the sweet spot, just like most other speakers would.

The bouncing off the ceiling idea reminds me of the old Bose 901 speakers. To my ears, 901's actually sounded better when you turned them around and listened to the back side.

Anyway, I can see how installing a piece of highly reflective material like a mirror would improve the reflection effect with speaker top Atmos systems. Install it right where the speakers central axis intersects the ceiling. Hopefully the angle of the speaker is set close to what is needed for the reflection to converge at the sweet spot (it would depend on how far away you are sitting).

As an added benefit, Mrs. GOS might get a little more adventurous seeing those new kinky mirrors on the ceiling...

 

[GOS]

I don't have any experience with an Atmos system, but it does make sense that the ceiling speakers would work best when aimed at the sweet spot, just like most other speakers would.

The bouncing off the ceiling idea reminds me of the old Bose 901 speakers. To my ears, 901's actually sounded better when you turned them around and listened to the back side.

Anyway, I can see how installing a piece of highly reflective material like a mirror would improve the reflection effect with speaker top Atmos systems. Install it right where the speakers central axis intersects the ceiling. Hopefully the angle of the speaker is set close to what is needed for the reflection to converge at the sweet spot (it would depend on how far away you are sitting).

As an added benefit, Mrs. GOS might get a little more adventurous seeing those new kinky mirrors on the ceiling...

My ceiling is highly reflective I'd say....

I haven't read all the posts as I'm busy ripping music but....I spent a good part of yesterday just tearing down my system, cleaning, moving wires...putting in AVR, reconnecting....troubleshooting....etc.

My audio room is very tidy right now and I'm liking it. So, before I go ape-shit and move my 2 new speakers around....I'll leave as is. Heck, I only have 3 Atmos titles. INXS, REM and The Wall. As I said, REM sounded pretty sweet really.

Maybe some other day, I'll play around and try to mount these up on the wall, near the ceiling. Just to see how that sounds. They are wedge shaped, so if I do that, there will be no reflection...they will be pointed almost directly at my sitting spot. Heck, that might be a good thing..who knows.

Regarding Mrs GOS, yes, we'll have to see about that. :banana:

 

[kap'n krunch]

hey GOS.. sorry that the ATMOS experiment did not deliver a great experience.. oh well.. at least you got a couple of beautiful speakers!!!!
I'm sure that it'll be cool for movies!!!

 

[Spock]

Do try the free Matt Darey Atmos album:

http://mattdareywolf.com/

Choose the second download link from the bottom, about 4 GB. When downloaded just doubleclick it - it should start the default Win 10 mediaplayer - that sends the Atmos bitstream to your AVR.

Pretty nice sounding Atmos track - great fidelty and songs!

 

[GOS]

Do try the free Matt Darey Atmos album:

http://mattdareywolf.com/

Choose the second download link from the bottom, about 4 GB. When downloaded just doubleclick it - it should start the default Win 10 mediaplayer - that sends the Atmos bitstream to your AVR.

Pretty nice sounding Atmos track - great fidelty and songs!

Whoa! Cool...I sure will. Thanks!!

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

That is strange? On my system Kick sounds nothing like a regular 5.1 mix. It's a very fun and active Atmos mix - with constant support from the ceiling speakers with a lot of discrete elements. Some panning and ping pong effects in the ceiling speakers too.

In fact the 2-3 first times I listened to it - I thought it was a little bit to much discreteness from the ceiling - I mean panning guitars from the sky (and vocals) ???? But after I got used to it - I like it more and more. Very cool.

I stand by what I said. Is it better than a regular 5.1 Mix? Yes. Is it a lot better like Automatic For The People? No. To me, this is what I hear with my Dolby Atmos configuration in my room on my speakers. Btw, are your Atmos ceiling speakers in the ceiling? Or, are they upfiring modules? No reason. Just curious.

Gene DeSalla from Audioholics says that bouncy speakers are dumb. I do not agree with that statement. Personally, I get excellent results with my particular speakers. They are wide dispersion. A reason why I place them higher than recommended. Normally, Dolby would recommend narrow (or, normal) dispersion speakers.

For the past few weeks, I’ve tried the different speaker configurations and have listened to all three upmixing codecs (Auro-2D/Auro-3D, Dolby Surround and DTS X: Neural) with stereo music. I came away liking Auro-3D the most followed by Dolby Surround. DTS X: Neural has too much information going on in the extra speakers for my taste. Plus, there’s no way to widen the front soundstage from center like the option with Dolby Surround, which I find important and sounds so much better. I’m happy with the upfiring method with Dolby Atmos/Surround for now but someday I may have to install those Auro Height speakers. Then again, maybe not.

 

[Spock]

I stand by what I said. Is it better than a regular 5.1 Mix? Yes. Is it a lot better like Automatic For The People? No. To me, this is what I hear with my Dolby Atmos configuration in my room on my speakers. Btw, are your Atmos ceiling speakers in the ceiling? Or, are they upfiring modules? No reason. Just curious.

Gene DeSalla from Audioholics says that bouncy speakers are dumb. I do not agree with that statement. Personally, I get excellent results with my particular speakers. They are wide dispersion. A reason why I place them higher than recommended. Normally, Dolby would recommend narrow (or, normal) dispersion speakers.

For the past few weeks, I’ve tried the different speaker configurations and have listened to all three upmixing codecs (Auro-2D/Auro-3D, Dolby Surround and DTS X: Neural) with stereo music. I came away liking Auro-3D the most followed by Dolby Surround. DTS X: Neural has too much information going on in the extra speakers for my taste. Plus, there’s no way to widen the front soundstage from center like the option with Dolby Surround, which I find important and sounds so much better. I’m happy with the upfiring method with Dolby Atmos/Surround for now but someday I may have to install those Auro Height speakers. Then again, maybe not.

My 4 ceiling speakers are mounted using adjustable brackets, similar to these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Theater-Me...941592?hash=item5690f19f98:g:1QkAAOSwux5YOG6C

All 4 speakers directly firing on axis towards sweetspot, placed in the preferred Dolby location/pattern.

It's great that you are happy with your setup

 

[GOS]

Do try the free Matt Darey Atmos album:

http://mattdareywolf.com/

Choose the second download link from the bottom, about 4 GB. When downloaded just doubleclick it - it should start the default Win 10 mediaplayer - that sends the Atmos bitstream to your AVR.

Pretty nice sounding Atmos track - great fidelty and songs!

OK, geez - that sounds pretty amazing. There is significant information routed to the 2 atmos speakers (height...lmao)
That's pretty damn fun to listen to. And, it's free!!!

 

[GOS]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk