King Crimson in 5.1?!

[timbre4]

Belcourt Theater
Sat/Sun August 2/3

I am guessing it's been sold out by now but you can always check....

Belcourt??? OMG nice small place. Saw Robyn Hitchcock there last year.

Thanks

 

[Almen]

Robert Fripp mentioned this a couple of days ago in his diary.

Only one of Steven’s skills is 5.1 surround mixing & Steven has taken an interest in 5.1 mixing of the Crimson catalogue. The first undertaking: Discipline...

Steven’s Discipline default-Crim-mix-thinking is 95% of my own. I made only 2 or 3 small suggestions to Steven’s superb surround-presentation, simply implemented. Stereo will never sound the same again to these ears.

:banana:

 

[daved64]

Robert Fripp mentioned this a couple of days ago in his diary.



:banana:

OMFG, I cannot wait to hear that in 5.1!!!! Love that album! Steve's 5.1 mixing and EQ choices should make it a mother f-er!

 

[Almen]

Yeah, I get goosebumps just thinking about it! Imagine The Sheltering Sky, Thela Hun Ginjeet, or Matte Kudasai...

 

[daved64]

Yeah, I get goosebumps just thinking about it! Imagine The Sheltering Sky, Thela Hun Ginjeet, or Matte Kudasai...

First thing I thought of was Belew's (or is it Fripp's?) elephant noises coming from behind me.

 

[Almen]

First thing I thought of was Belew's (or is it Fripp's?) elephant noises coming from behind me.

Yeah, it's Belew. @:

 

[user 1679]

I was reading that diary entry this morning too.

The fact that Fripp seems pleased with the initial results is a pretty good sign that we will in fact see these come out, and at the pace Steven seems to work at we'll not have to wait forever either.

 

[rusinurbe]

I for one am looking forward to this and reasonably optomistic about it as well.

i dont expect to see all KC albums released in surround though that would be nice.

 

[daved64]

I for one am looking forward to this and reasonably optomistic about it as well.

i dont expect to see all KC albums released in surround though that would be nice.

Just guessing but Fripp is probably concentrating on modern day KC first. I wonder if he owns the masters for the older stuff?

 

[Almen]

I wonder if he owns the masters for the older stuff?

Yes, he does. I am not sure that all multitrack masters are available, though.

 

[Ge Someone]

.. at the pace Steven seems to work at we'll not have to wait forever either.

Hmm, it took pretty long before Stupid Dream and Lightbulb Sun were actually released.

I wonder if he owns the masters for the older stuff?

In that case it could be a box set of some sort.

 

[Almen]

...it could be a box set of some sort.

I doubt that; DGM does not have that kind of resources. More likely is a one at a time approach, probably also to test the market.

 

[user 1679]

Hmm, it took pretty long before Stupid Dream and Lightbulb Sun were actually released.

I don't think it was that long from when the 5.1 mixes were made, not an unreasonable amount of time or anything? At least not like the early Genesis ones that have been basically sitting on the shelf for ages.

 

[zabble]

This is really, really good news.:banana:

 

[ssully]

The bit that really irks me with stereoheads is that the have it all sideways - in the real world we are always listening in surround.
Our ears pick up a sound & the first thing they do is localise the direction & the distance.
(We need to know if we have to run away or not, and this is instinctive in our minds)

This is of course true, but the 'surround' in real life is almost always reflected sound, not direct sound. Rarely is the triangle player, for example, located to the rear left of us...except maybe when we're listening to Stockhausen.

It's stereo that is un-natural.

Two channels stereo recordings of live events are inherently crippled; vast amounts of spatial information are simply not captured.

For rock/pop studio recordings, where instrumental outputs are often fed directly into the board at different times, and the 'space' may be entirely an electronic creation, the un-naturalness is part of the art...there never was a 'natural' version.

Plus - of course - the sweet spot is actually much narrower in stereo because of the phantom centre, and if you move from side to side, the entire image will shift. Using a real centre channel eliminates this problem.

Quite so. And a set of surround speakers may (*may*) ameliorate some room reflection issues.

Trouble is there are way too many "5.1" mixes that are either
A - stereo with reverb in the rears, and an occasional solo in centre channel or

That is probably the most natural mix, for a live event.

 

[ssully]

I always thought (been a bass player) that a very good surround mix would be "in the band".

I think that would be a bad idea, because onstage most rock bands, rather than rely on 'stage sound', use monitors to hear what the other members (drummers excluded) are playing. The actual sound onstage is often very unbalanced, hence the need for monitors. I don't think people really want to hear *that* at home.

I'm happy to hear that Discipline is due for a 5.1 treatment...the steroe version always sounded somewhat poorly recorded to me. Hopefully the surround version will bring it more to life. Those Roland guitar swooshes by Fripp in 'Sheltering Sky' could be awesome....not to mention the drum fusillage Bruford unleashes in 'Indiscipline'.

 

[Almen]

The bit that really irks me with stereoheads is that the have it all sideways - in the real world we are always listening in surround.
Our ears pick up a sound & the first thing they do is localise the direction & the distance.
(We need to know if we have to run away or not, and this is instinctive in our minds)

This is of course true, but the 'surround' in real life is almost always reflected sound, not direct sound. Rarely is the triangle player, for example, located to the rear left of us...except maybe when we're listening to Stockhausen

And when we're walking around in real life, in the woods or in the streets.

Some "True Audiophiles" say "We only have two ears, why listen to more than two channels" - this is to me as stupid as saying that since we only have two eyes we shouldn't see in more than two dimensions...

 

[Almen]

I always thought (been a bass player) that a very good surround mix would be "in the band".

I think that would be a bad idea, because onstage most rock bands, rather than rely on 'stage sound', use monitors to hear what the other members (drummers excluded) are playing. The actual sound onstage is often very unbalanced, hence the need for monitors. I don't think people really want to hear *that* at home.

But not onstage - imagine the rehearsal room sound. I'd go for that! Sort of like Chunga Basement on Quadiophiliac.

 

[ssully]

And when we're walking around in real life, in the woods or in the streets.

I suppose if you're walking to the concession stand during an outdoor orchestral concert in the woods, this would hold true. Otherwise, I don't normally expect to hear triangle players coming from behind me rather than in front of me, when I'm listening to live music.

Some "True Audiophiles" say "We only have two ears, why listen to more than two channels" - this is to me as stupid as saying that since we only have two eyes we shouldn't see in more than two dimensions...

Again, advocating instrumental placement in rear channels is not the same as advocating accurate ambience capture and reproduction. Surround can sustain both, but only one tends to be 'natural'. The other is artifice. Which isn'tto say it's bad.

 

[Almen]

I suppose if you're walking to the concession stand during an outdoor orchestral concert in the woods, this would hold true. Otherwise, I don't normally expect to hear triangle players coming from behind me rather than in front of me, when I'm listening to live music.

Well, apart from some especially notified occurrances in symphonies of trumpet players standing at the far back of the hall and the like, you are right, of course. I just wanted to support a refutal of the commonly held mistake that "we only listen to music from the front, why have surround".

Again, advocating instrumental placement in rear channels is not the same as advocating accurate ambience capture and reproduction. Surround can sustain both, but only one tends to be 'natural'. The other is artifice. Which isn'tto say it's bad.

Well, as I said, the "natural" rehearsal room sound for the singer in a pop/rock/jazz band might very well be with instruments sounding from behind.

That said, I guess I agree with you.