Roxy Music -Avalon 40th anniversary Dolby Atmos Mix??

[scottm18]

The vast majority of Atmos mixes on the streaming services are not fake.

What I mean by "fake" is the bitrate isn't nearly what a disc-based Atmos recording is. What is it a DTS- like 768k...maybe? On a decent system like most of us have the difference is night and day.

I've always wondered, does anyone know what the streaming version bit rate for Atmos typically is? As I said, there's no way it could be anywhere close to what it is on disc.

In comparison I was just listening to the awesome Dio (RIP).Sacred Heart Blu-ray which is over 5 MB bitrate for audio.--and sounds it. Good luck getting that on a streaming service!

 

[Ephi82]

What I mean by "fake" is the bitrate isn't nearly what a disc-based Atmos recording is. What is it a DTS- like 768k...maybe? On a decent system like most of us have the difference is night and day.

I've always wondered, does anyone know what the streaming version bit rate for Atmos typically is? As I said, there's no way it could be anywhere close to what it is on disc.

In comparison I was just listening to the awesome Dio (RIP).Sacred Heart Blu-ray which is over 5 MB bitrate for audio.--and sounds it. Good luck getting that on a streaming service!

I think the availability of streaming multi channel music will likely save surround music from the inevitable death that was coming as a disc only format.

I have more heard more “new to me” surround recordings since subscribing to Apple Music last year, than I heard from all of 2004-2021.

As far as bit rate is concerned, I just don’t let the numbers cloud my enjoyment of the music. Yes, it’s not as good sounding as disc based stuff, but it doesn’t ruin my day.

 

[himey]

What I mean by "fake" is the bitrate isn't nearly what a disc-based Atmos recording is. What is it a DTS- like 768k...maybe? On a decent system like most of us have the difference is night and day.

I've always wondered, does anyone know what the streaming version bit rate for Atmos typically is? As I said, there's no way it could be anywhere close to what it is on disc.

In comparison I was just listening to the awesome Dio (RIP).Sacred Heart Blu-ray which is over 5 MB bitrate for audio.--and sounds it. Good luck getting that on a streaming service!

Streaming Atmos sounds great on my setup if the mix is good. That is too bad for you if it doesn't sound good on your particular setup. The mix, mastering, and the production is more important than the format. You could have the highest bitrate, lossless format, and if the mix or the mastering sucks, the extra bits, isn't going to make it sound good. I can name hundreds of Atmos mixes only available on streaming services that sound excellent.

 

[scottm18]

I can name hundreds of Atmos mixes only available on streaming services that sound excellent.

I've heard my share of the AppleAtmos mixes both on a real Atmos system and my 5.1 setup when I borrowed an Apple TV. There are definitely a few that stood out like in particular Lady Gaga, but the more majority of them just sounded weird especially TP "Free Falling" with those voices all over the place was just not in a good way strange. There's also way too much mid-range and not enough highs and lows, to my ears anyway.

I think my system and it's high-end Oppo 205/Audio Research components is just *too* revealing in resolution that I can easily hear the difference between streaming and real Atmos.

 

[himey]

I can name hundreds of Atmos mixes only available on streaming services that sound excellent.

I've heard my share of the AppleAtmos mixes both on a real Atmos system and my 5.1 setup when I borrowed an Apple TV. There are definitely a few that stood out like in particular Lady Gaga, but the more majority of them just sounded weird especially TP "Free Falling" with those voices all over the place was just not in a good way strange. There's also way too much mid-range and not enough highs and lows, to my ears anyway.

I think my system and it's high-end Oppo 205/Audio Research components is just *too* revealing in resolution that I can easily hear the difference between streaming and real Atmos.

Decoding Atmos sounds better but I have a 205, and have listened to many Atmos mixes without decoding, just listening to floor channels in 5.1, and the good mixes translated nicely to that setup. Rush Signals for example sounded excellent through my Oppo I remember. I don't listen that way any longer now that I decode the Atmos properly, but Apple Music through my Oppo sounded very nice. There are lots of poor mixes, but the good ones sound excellent. That is too bad only Lady Gaga sounded good to you. How does the Van Morrison sound?

 

[Bob Romano]

Hmmm. I thought this thread was about an Atmos mix of Avalon. Wait... It WAS.

 

[bayards]

Apple.....bah humbug! Not for me. I prefer physical, booklet notes etc. Avalon in Atmos on SDE...let it happen.

 

[himey]

Apple.....bah humbug! Not for me. I prefer physical, booklet notes etc. Avalon in Atmos on SDE...let it happen.

Hopefully they add an Avalon Blu-ray to an overpriced box set so I can read pages and pages of people complaining about the price, rather than complaining about how bad streaming services sound compared to Blu-ray.

 

[scottm18]

Apple.....bah humbug! Not for me. I prefer physical, booklet notes etc. Avalon in Atmos on SDE...let it happen

Obviously I've made it pretty apparrent so do I... I'm actually a Qobuz guy because of their hi-res prowess--which can sound as good or better as an Atmos tunie just in stereo with the right track. But let's face it, a lot of times streaming Atmos is the only option so at least they offer it in some capacity.

The list is growing of releases i wish were on physical disc (mostly SW jobs): Sister Sledge, A-ha, ABC. Scottish sea-shanty tunesmith Nathan Evans actually sounds pretty good in streaming Atmos (that was a surprise). But even SW laments he has to do streaming versions versus full disc...as you can glean in his interviews.

As far as the Van Morrison question...I have Moondance in DVD-Audio and it can't compare. Still stares the crap out of me when that foghorn goes off...which i think has the most range going through my subwoofer of any song I can think of. A lot more than just LFE there!

Again I only have a 5.1 system because it's all analog, and of rather fantastic resolution...but I have heard a full Atmos system for several hours with many of the best Apple tracks.

 

[himey]

Apple.....bah humbug! Not for me. I prefer physical, booklet notes etc. Avalon in Atmos on SDE...let it happen

Obviously I've made it pretty apparrent so do I... I'm actually a Qobuz guy because of their hi-res prowess--which can sound as good or better as an Atmos tunie just in stereo with the right track. But let's face it, a lot of times streaming Atmos is the only option so at least they offer it in some capacity.

The list is growing of releases i wish were on physical disc (mostly SW jobs): Sister Sledge, A-ha, ABC. Scottish sea-shanty tunesmith Nathan Evans actually sounds pretty good in streaming Atmos (that was a surprise). But even SW laments he has to do streaming versions versus full disc...as you can glean in his interviews.

As far as the Van Morrison question...I have Moondance in DVD-Audio and it can't compare. Still stares the crap out of me when that foghorn goes off...which i think has the most range going through my subwoofer of any song I can think of. A lot more than just LFE there!

Again I only have a 5.1 system because it's all analog, and of rather fantastic resolution...but I have heard a full Atmos system for several hours with many of the best Apple tracks.

The magic of high resolution. Making stereo sound like Atmos.

 

[fredblue]

Apple.....bah humbug! Not for me. I prefer physical, booklet notes etc. Avalon in Atmos on SDE...let it happen

Obviously I've made it pretty apparrent so do I... I'm actually a Qobuz guy because of their hi-res prowess--which can sound as good or better as an Atmos tunie just in stereo with the right track. But let's face it, a lot of times streaming Atmos is the only option so at least they offer it in some capacity.

The list is growing of releases i wish were on physical disc (mostly SW jobs): Sister Sledge, A-ha, ABC. Scottish sea-shanty tunesmith Nathan Evans actually sounds pretty good in streaming Atmos (that was a surprise). But even SW laments he has to do streaming versions versus full disc...as you can glean in his interviews.

As far as the Van Morrison question...I have Moondance in DVD-Audio and it can't compare. Still stares the crap out of me when that foghorn goes off...which i think has the most range going through my subwoofer of any song I can think of. A lot more than just LFE there!

Again I only have a 5.1 system because it's all analog, and of rather fantastic resolution...but I have heard a full Atmos system for several hours with many of the best Apple tracks.

Steven Wilson's Dolby Atmos mixes of ABC's "The Lexicon Of Love" are now on Blu-ray disc;

https://www.thesdeshop.com/collecti...e-limited-edition-sde-exclusive-blu-ray-audio

 

[bayards]

...and it's pretty spectacular. Wondering whether to invest in the forthcoming Prince Atmos on SDE....

 

[GilWave]

Atmos Avalon out next month on streaming services...

File under: Who Cares. I'd much rather listen to my sterling SACD 5.1 Avalon than the (mostly) crappy, fake Amos lossy bitrate versions that are proliferating (read: clogging up) streaming services because no one buys physical discs anymore--even though they are just vastly superior.

I care. Because Bob Clearmountain, who mixed the original Avalon (which arguably made his career) has done this particular mix. He did *not* do the Atmos mixes of the tracks from Avalon that are included in the Best of Roxy Music on streaming services. I won't repeat here what he said about those mixes, but he did say that these new Atmos mixes are superior.

I've known Bob since my time with Eventide in 1986, and have been in the studio (Air London) with him for one of the mix sessions for McCartney's Tripping the Live Fantastic record. I've also watched him work at his Mix This studio in California - he takes this music and his position as the mix engineer very seriously, and he has great consideration for Avalon, he knows how seminal a record it is. I'm confident this Atmos mix will be as impressive as it is musical.

As with every playback method that's out there, listening to music is optional entertainment. You're free not to care, but that doesn't mean all of us shouldn't.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I care. Because Bob Clearmountain, who mixed the original Avalon (which arguably made his career) has done this particular mix. He did *not* do the Atmos mixes of the tracks from Avalon that are included in the Best of Roxy Music on streaming services. I won't repeat here what he said about those mixes, but he did say that these new Atmos mixes are superior.

I've known Bob since my time with Eventide in 1986, and have been in the studio (Air London) with him for one of the mix sessions for McCartney's Tripping the Live Fantastic record. I've also watched him work at his Mix This studio in California - he takes this music and his position as the mix engineer very seriously, and he has great consideration for Avalon, he knows how seminal a record it is. I'm confident this Atmos mix will be as impressive as it is musical.

As with every playback method that's out there, listening to music is optional entertainment. You're free not to care, but that doesn't mean all of us shouldn't.

Plus, Atmos mixing is fairly new to Bob is it not? So it gives us a chance to hear a new "imagining" of this Iconic album, as well as how Bob approaches Atmos (at least for this album.)

 

[sjcorne]

Plus, Atmos mixing is fairly new to Bob is it not? So it gives us a chance to hear a new "imagining" of this Iconic album, as well as how Bob approaches Atmos (at least for this album.)

He’s worked on a decent number of Atmos titles thus far:

• The Band - Cahoots
• The Band - Music From Big Pink (streaming only)
• Joe Bonamassa - Time Clocks (streaming only)
• Bryan Adams - Reckless (streaming only)
• A Bad Think - X
• A Bad Think - Short St.
• Lori Lieberman - Truly
• Bruce Springsteen - Only The Strong Survive (uncredited, but sounds like his mix style to me)

 

[GilWave]

Plus, Atmos mixing is fairly new to Bob is it not? So it gives us a chance to hear a new "imagining" of this Iconic album, as well as how Bob approaches Atmos (at least for this album.)

He was in Nashville (well, Berry Hill, anyway) to talk to Blackbird Academy about and premiere the new A Bad Think record, Short St., which he worked on in Atmos with Dave Way.

 

[srbjab]

For me, it's a simpler set of questions. Sure, every time I've been in a position to do a direct AB comparison between streaming Atmos and physical disc decoded Atmos, physical disc has sounded better. Actual night and day better? Debatable, but certainly audible. However, how many times are we in a position to do that kind of immediate direct comparison between the formats? And for how many titles?

Streaming has allowed me to sample and enjoy a huge number of Atmos titles I would never have experienced otherwise, either because no physical release exists or because I have neither the money or the interest to purchase everything that does come out. And let's face it. A bad or weak surround mix is just that - a bad mix whether applied to 6, 8, 12, or more channels, and whether it is being streamed or decoded from disc.

I'm not going to let 'perfect' be the enemy of good (and in some cases, very good), which just means I'm very happy to hear so much surround music even when delivered on a slightly compromised platform. However, everyone is certainly free to make their own choice not to do so. (By the way, really looking forward to hearing Avalon and Boys And Girls in Atmos . )

 

[scottm18]

The magic of high resolution. Making stereo sound like Atmos.

That's really not that much of an exaggeration for some titles. If you have Qobuz and a high quality system, try this track to see what I mean. It sounds fully surround (not to mention absolutely thunderous bass) and it's only in stereo. It does help that my listening room is almost fully enclosed with wood floors and reflective block walls.

Hopefully Bob's Atmos version of Reckless sounds better than the Blu-ray audio, which was not that impressive at all.
https://open.qobuz.com/track/81320203

 

[J. PUPSTER]

He’s worked on a decent number of Atmos titles thus far:

• The Band - Cahoots
• The Band - Music From Big Pink (streaming only)
• Joe Bonamassa - Time Clocks (streaming only)
• Bryan Adams - Reckless (streaming only)
• A Bad Think - X
• A Bad Think - Short St.
• Lori Lieberman - Truly
• Bruce Springsteen - Only The Strong Survive (uncredited, but sounds like his mix style to me)

I found that Springsteen album referenced in this interview-

https://www.15questions.net/interview/bob-clearmountain-interview-about-mixing-atmos/page-1/

 

[dobyblue]

What I mean by "fake" is the bitrate isn't nearly what a disc-based Atmos recording is. What is it a DTS- like 768k...maybe? On a decent system like most of us have the difference is night and day.

I've always wondered, does anyone know what the streaming version bit rate for Atmos typically is? As I said, there's no way it could be anywhere close to what it is on disc.

It's between 384 Kbps to 768 Kbps according to Dolby. I'm with you, I bemoan how lossy streaming Atmos is and the few titles I'm able to make direct comparisons with I find the difference IS night and day (Abbey Road, The Future Bites, Let It Be, etc).

What sucks harder is the bitrate they're using for higher resolution stereo stuff is far higher than their Atmos bit-rate. It's not like this was created in 1999, they should have gone with something that allows greater transparency to the master. Lossy Atmos fares better with material that uses less channels simultaneously, like television shows. It is weakest for immersive studio music. YMMV.

https://developer.dolby.com/technology/dolby-audio/dolby-digital-plus/