Adding a 5:th speaker

[Quad grant me serenity]

Folks, I am thinking about upgrading my system by adding a fifth speaker and I am seeking your advice about the if and the how. It seems some of my music and films get a little low on the voice.

Today I run my Apple Tv through an Oppo 103D to a Marantz 4230 quad amp, and a Surround Master 3. It would seem possible to me to get an active center speaker, and getting the signal directly there from the Oppo. I would not like to change this system that I otherwise really like. Now, is this a really moronic idea or worth trying? Or is there some other way, for instance through tweaking the Oppo into getting more of the center channel to the front speakers? Thanks in advance for your wise and enlightened replies.

 

[proufo]

You can get a Dolby Surround decoder. It would derive a center channel that you can adjust to your needs and preserve the non-common sounds in the main speakers.

I think there is a Yamaha unit (RCA connectors) that appears sometimes at ebay. There are also beautiful Dolby-branded SDU4 pro/studio decoders (with XLR connectors). You may be able to use adapters cables, I'm not sure.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Take a look at the Schiit SYN.

 

[Quad grant me serenity]

Thank you, proufo! I think I solved that problem so far - the Oppo is downmixing Atmos and other formats to 5.1, and the Surround Master is able to synthesize 5 channels (although most users seems to prefer 4 channels). The problem is my old school amp, that only have 4 channels. If I could get the Oppo to transform Atmos to 4 channel sound all my problems would be solved. But that seems not to be the case. And that’s is why I’m contemplating adding a speaker…

 

[Quad grant me serenity]

Take a look at the Schiit SYN.

Thank you, Kal! I will look into it.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

If I could get the Oppo to transform Atmos to 4 channel sound all my problems would be solved. But that seems not to be the case. And that’s is why I’m contemplating adding a speaker…

In the Oppo set up menu there is a section for speaker configuration. If you set it for four speakers no matter what the starting format is (ATMOS, 7.1, 5.1) it should properly down mix into 4.0.

If the Oppo is downmixing to 5.1 as you said above and you are not using a center front speaker that would certainly explain why vocals are not loud enough for you.

Good luck... I'm interested to see how this resolves.

 

[Quad grant me serenity]

In the Oppo set up menu there is a section for speaker configuration. If you set it for four speakers no matter what the starting format is (ATMOS, 7.1, 5.1) it should properly down mix into 4.0.

If the Oppo is downmixing to 5.1 as you said above and you are not using a center front speaker that would certainly explain why vocals are not loud enough for you.

Good luck... I'm interested to see how this resolves.

Thanks, Sonic Wiz! Well, that’s is actually what I am doing now, only ticking the FL, FR, SL and SR boxes. It is hard to know if the fifth channel is going into the others (how can you test that? Is there a song with audio specifically in the center channel and nothing else, that would help me), but to me it sounds like it is missing.

 

[proufo]

If you use a Dolby Surround decoder you will have a surround output, that you can send to the back of the room a get something similar to the Wendy Carlos 7.2 system.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Thanks, Sonic Wiz! Well, that’s is actually what I am doing now, only ticking the FL, FR, SL and SR boxes. It is hard to know if the fifth channel is going into the others (how can you test that? Is there a song with audio specifically in the center channel and nothing else, that would help me), but to me it sounds like it is missing.

Like others here I have excellent center front phantom imaging. When I am not using the CF speaker it is so good sometimes I have to get up & put my ear to it & make sure it's turned off.

Unlike others here I am not so deadly opposed to using a CF speaker. I have one above & below my screen and when people get scattered aboput the room it does what it's supposed to do: anchor movie dialogue where it should be no matter where your sitting.

Also sometimes playing stereo to surround the vocals are rather low in level... nothing to do with the decoding process just that's the way the stereo mix was made. Dandy Warhols & some Lou Reed comes to mind. I also have some MCH SACD that the center front vocals seem just too low me such as some King Crimson or Mott the Hoople. So boosting a real center front ch can be a big improvement.

As for test tones would this be of help to you?:

https://www.demolandia.net/cinema/dolby-demo-trailers-hd/page-10.html

 

[Quad grant me serenity]

Like others here I have excellent center front phantom imaging. When I am not using the CF speaker it is so good sometimes I have to get up & put my ear to it & make sure it's turned off.

Unlike others here I am not so deadly opposed to using a CF speaker. I have one above & below my screen and when people get scattered aboput the room it does what it's supposed to do: anchor movie dialogue where it should be no matter where your sitting.

Also sometimes playing stereo to surround the vocals are rather low in level... nothing to do with the decoding process just that's the way the stereo mix was made. Dandy Warhols & some Lou Reed comes to mind. I also have some MCH SACD that the center front vocals seem just too low me such as some King Crimson or Mott the Hoople. So boosting a real center front ch can be a big improvement.

As for test tones would this be of help to you?:

https://www.demolandia.net/cinema/dolby-demo-trailers-hd/page-10.html

Thanks a lot, Sonic Wiz! Yes, sometimes I get the feeling that synthesized surround generally lowers the center sounds. The things that’s sounds most correct on my quad system is…quad discrete mixes.

I’ll try the test sounds!

 

[Quad grant me serenity]

Like others here I have excellent center front phantom imaging. When I am not using the CF speaker it is so good sometimes I have to get up & put my ear to it & make sure it's turned off.

Unlike others here I am not so deadly opposed to using a CF speaker. I have one above & below my screen and when people get scattered aboput the room it does what it's supposed to do: anchor movie dialogue where it should be no matter where your sitting.

Also sometimes playing stereo to surround the vocals are rather low in level... nothing to do with the decoding process just that's the way the stereo mix was made. Dandy Warhols & some Lou Reed comes to mind. I also have some MCH SACD that the center front vocals seem just too low me such as some King Crimson or Mott the Hoople. So boosting a real center front ch can be a big improvement.

As for test tones would this be of help to you?:

https://www.demolandia.net/cinema/dolby-demo-trailers-hd/page-10.html[/

You were right, Sonic Wiz! I did a...s and movies. Which is a lot easier. Thanks!

 

[Quad grant me serenity]

Like others here I have excellent center front phantom imaging. When I am not using the CF speaker it is so good sometimes I have to get up & put my ear to it & make sure it's turned off.

Unlike others here I am not so deadly opposed to using a CF speaker. I have one above & below my screen and when people get scattered aboput the room it does what it's supposed to do: anchor movie dialogue where it should be no matter where your sitting.

Also sometimes playing stereo to surround the vocals are rather low in level... nothing to do with the decoding process just that's the way the stereo mix was made. Dandy Warhols & some Lou Reed comes to mind. I also have some MCH SACD that the center front vocals seem just too low me such as some King Crimson or Mott the Hoople. So boosting a real center front ch can be a big improvement.

As for test tones would this be of help to you?:

https://www.demolandia.net/cinema/dolby-demo-trailers-hd/page-10.html

You were right, Sonic Wiz! I did a 5.1 test with two different settings on the Oppo - one with 4 and the other with 5 speakers. I turned out that the Oppo downmixes to 4 when I have 4 speakers on! Straight to quad. Didn’t know that.

I guess it means that I actually do not miss any sound, but may want to adjust the front-rear balance with some records and movies. Which is a lot easier.

Thanks!

 

[ClassicalSurroundFan]

Thanks, Sonic Wiz! Well, that’s is actually what I am doing now, only ticking the FL, FR, SL and SR boxes. It is hard to know if the fifth channel is going into the others (how can you test that? Is there a song with audio specifically in the center channel and nothing else, that would help me), but to me it sounds like it is missing.

There is an Apple TV app called Surround Speaker Check that can give you some casual test material through the Apple TV. There are some center channel tests on it as well.

 

[himey]

may want to adjust the front-rear balance with some records and movies.

The Oppo app works great for that.

 

[par4ken]

The Oppo can be set to down mix to 4.0, however if you want to output SACD as DSD the downmixing doesn't work, unless you set the output for SCAD to PCM. When downmixing the quad back channels are the side (surround) channels, don't set to front and back with no side speakers or the downmixing won't work. You will lose the back channels altogether. Why does the Oppo do this when the side encoded signals should route to the back speakers?

A centre speaker could easily be added to a quad system by simply adding a mono amplifier. You could also use one channel of a stereo amplifier, the other could be used for sub-bass if desired. Simply power it off when not required.

While modern music releases tend to suffer from lack dynamic range, most often movies are the opposite. Excessive dynamic range designed to impress in a movie theatre. Turning up the volume to hear the audio you are blasted by the sound effects! So adding a centre speaker should help equalise the level differences.

I've considered that option myself at times. I usually just watch movies via the TV speakers but even then the dialogue can be hard to hear at times, while special (sound) effects blast through!

 

[MidiMagic]

Or use this:

It can convert 4 channels into 5 or 5 channels into 4

 

[Quad grant me serenity]

The Oppo can be set to down mix to 4.0, however if you want to output SACD as DSD the downmixing doesn't work, unless you set the output for SCAD to PCM. When downmixing the quad back channels are the side (surround) channels, don't set to front and back with no side speakers or the downmixing won't work. You will lose the back channels altogether. Why does the Oppo do this when the side encoded signals should route to the back speakers?

A centre speaker could easily be added to a quad system by simply adding a mono amplifier. You could also use one channel of a stereo amplifier, the other could be used for sub-bass if desired. Simply power it off when not required.

While modern music releases tend to suffer from lack dynamic range, most often movies are the opposite. Excessive dynamic range designed to impress in a movie theatre. Turning up the volume to hear the audio you are blasted by the sound effects! So adding a centre speaker should help equalise the level differences.

I've considered that option myself at times. I usually just watch movies via the TV speakers but even then the dialogue can be hard to hear at times, while special (sound) effects blast through!

Thanks you, par4ken! Yes, I actually don’t like the sound at cinemas at all. Too loud and hard sounding. Whenever someone advertise surround sound with the argument that it is “like the movies” I think they are completely wrong. My home setup sounds a lot better than any theater I’ve visited!

Yeah, a 5:th may still be added. But why not just skip the amp and go for an active speaker?

 

[himey]

But why not just skip the amp and go for an active speaker?

He would have to skip his quad Marantz receiver too. The Oppo can do volume control, but I don't see how he can incorporate the two.

 

[par4ken]

He would have to skip his quad Marantz receiver too. The Oppo can do volume control, but I don't see how he can incorporate the two.

Simply connect the centre channel to the separate amplifier, or active speaker. The Oppo can still control the volume. Why do away with the Marantz receiver?

 

[himey]

Simply connect the centre channel to the separate amplifier, or active speaker. The Oppo can still control the volume. Why do away with the Marantz receiver?

Because it would need to be set to maximum volume and could cause issues. It is workable but not ideal.