KISS "Destroyer" Box Set with Blu-Ray (Steven Wilson 5.1 & Dolby Atmos mixes out soon!)

[marcb]

That’s what they said about classical recordings as well.

Listen to ABB Fillmore East if you have yet to hear it.

Because he’s Steven Wilson and has his own way of doing things.

Well, if “they” said that about classical recordings, “they“ were correct.

I don’t recall the Fillmore East 5.1 having much other than ambiance and crowd in the rears. I can’t recall what the quad mix is like because I haven’t listened to it in some time. Is it a center of the stage mix? Maybe that’s why.

And I think center of the stage live mixes sound ridiculous. It doesn’t sound remotely like what the crowd hears and, if you‘ve ever been in an electric band on a stage, it doesn’t sound anything like what it sounds like on the stage either. At best it sounds like what many people want to think it must sound like on the stage.

I just don’t understand the obsession here of everything having to be a surround demo disc - whether it makes any sense artistically or aurally. Just because you have 4 or 5 or 7 or whatever points, it doesn’t mean you have to use all of them conspicuously. Thankfully a lot of surround mix engineers have enough sense and taste to frustrate many here.

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

What do you mean by “the show was done multi-channel”? Do you mean it had a quad sound system and was utilized as such? Very, very few groups did this - and I highly doubt Deep Purple was one of them. But I could be wrong.

I guess if a band’s music or live performances lend themselves to a discrete quad/surround mix, I suppose it might not be awful. But a band like Deep Purple and the album Made In Japan doesn’t, IMO.

Yes I agree very few bands did that other than PF & ELP…. Not sure who else did…that’s what I was saying

 

[knifeman]

Yes I agree very few bands did that other than PF & ELP…. Not sure who else did…that’s what I was saying

I saw a Yes show back in the 90's that was in surround. I think DTS sponsored the tour so that might have had something to do with it.

 

[boxhead]

Yes I agree very few bands did that other than PF & ELP…. Not sure who else did…that’s what I was saying

Steven Wilson still does do his live shows in surround.

 

[skherbeck]

"Live music mixes with discrete instruments in the rears sound silly IMO." - marcb

Listen to any live 5.1 mix by Elliot Scheiner (Fleetwood Mac "The Dance", John Fogerty "Premonition", Eagles, etc.) and tell me it sounds silly.

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

Steven Wilson still does do his live shows in surround.

But of course

 

[marcb]

"Live music mixes with discrete instruments in the rears sound silly IMO." - marcb

Listen to any live 5.1 mix by Elliot Scheiner (Fleetwood Mac "The Dance", John Fogerty "Premonition", Eagles, etc.) and tell me it sounds silly.

I‘m listening to The Dance. It’s kind of all over the place. I like it when it’s almost entirely front oriented with a bit room delay/ambiance and audience in the rears. It certainly sounds like a live show on a soundstage with a relatively small audience. But, for example, I’m So Afraid sounds dead. And when he (Scheiner I presume) puts backup vocals or discrete percussion elements (and what sounds like some occasional guitar dubs or maybe just decays) in the rears, it sounds silly to me. The visceral feeling and sense of a live show is lost. Not the most egregious example I’ve heard, but gratuitous nonetheless.

But I’m not surprised the ”surround demo” crowd might like it.

I don’t know which Eagles you’re referring to.

I listened to quad of Fillmore (as someone earlier suggested) and I don’t why they would use that as an example of a discrete surround mix. That’s a nice live mix. The audience and delay/ambiance added in the rears accentuates the feel of being in a small venue for a live show.

 

[sjcorne]

I listened to quad of Fillmore (as someone earlier suggested) and I don’t why they would use that as an example of a discrete surround mix. That’s a nice live mix. The audience and delay/ambiance added in the rears accentuates the feel of being in a small venue for a live show.

The DTS-CD of Fillmore (which I understand uses the '70s quad mix?) has all the guitar leads in the rear speakers, plus some venue sound.

 

[marcb]

The DTS-CD of Fillmore (which I understand uses the '70s quad mix?) has all the guitar leads in the rear speakers, plus some venue sound.

Weird. The version I have is supposedly from a quad reel. But I didn’t hear anything remotely like that. However I don’t know what it is if the true quad mix is like what you describe (which sounds awful IMO).

The two guitars are about 80/20 LF/LR and RF/RR. I don’t see how it could be a rebalanced version of the quad mix and it’s not the BDA mix (no harmonica in Stormy Monday. Maybe it’s the SACD mix, but it sounds noticeably different to that too (but that could just be that someone futzed with the EQ, etc. quite a bit). And it’s not fake quad upmixed from stereo.

Now I’m gonna have to CSI this thing…

 

[roundhousequad]

Agreed, G'nR Appetite fire sale price and I'm in!!

View attachment 72099

where did you get it at this price?

 

[Bill B]

where did you get it at this price?

I got mine for about that price directly from the GnR website. Still available for $49 too....
https://gnrmerch.com/collections/music/products/appetite-for-destruction-super-deluxe-edition

 

[roundhousequad]

I got mine for about that price directly from the GnR website. Still available for $49 too....
https://gnrmerch.com/collections/music/products/appetite-for-destruction-super-deluxe-edition

got it thank you

 

[Scott M4]

Why wouldn’t he do an audience/ambiance mix? That they way 99.999% of people hear live music.

Live music mixes with discrete instruments in the rears sound silly IMO.

Just thought I’d pop in to say that Talking Heads’ “Stop Making Sense” DVD has both the theatrical front-centric mix and a “studio” mix which is a rare and beautiful solution. I always listen to the studio mix for full immersion.

 

[leahypc]

Just thought I’d pop in to say that Talking Heads’ “Stop Making Sense” DVD has both the theatrical front-centric mix and a “studio” mix which is a rare and beautiful solution. I always listen to the studio mix for full immersion.

I think The Pineapple Thief has done that also, like on the 'Where We Stood' release, if I remember correctly.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I think The Pineapple Thief has done that also, like on the 'Where We Stood' release, if I remember correctly.

You do remember correctly.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Alternate surround mixes are available on at least one Monster Music production too.

 

[madship]

Why wouldn’t he do an audience/ambiance mix? That they way 99.999% of people hear live music.

Live music mixes with discrete instruments in the rears sound silly IMO.

In most cases I don't like live recordings. I like them when the artist does something new with the songs (eg. The Kinks - One From the Road, Joe Jackson - Summer in the City, etc.) For this reason, I don't buy many live recordings,

Contradictory to the above, I do enjoy concert films, even if the artist isn't providing new interpretations of the songs. I like the "live atmosphere" and seeing the artists perform. But since I am not there I prefer these releases present a discrete surround mix. Watching on a screen doesn't replace the energy of a being there.

To me the best way to compensate for missing the live energy is to have a great discrete surround mix.

 

[Scott M4]

In most cases I don't like live recordings. I like them when the artist does something new with the songs (eg. The Kinks - One From the Road, Joe Jackson - Summer in the City, etc.) For this reason, I don't buy many live recordings,

Contradictory to the above, I do enjoy concert films, even if the artist isn't providing new interpretations of the songs. I like the "live atmosphere" and seeing the artists perform. But since I am not there I prefer these releases present a discrete surround mix. Watching on a screen doesn't replace the energy of a being there.

To me the best way to compensate for missing the live energy is to have a great discrete surround mix.

I like your attitude!

 

[marcb]

Just thought I’d pop in to say that Talking Heads’ “Stop Making Sense” DVD has both the theatrical front-centric mix and a “studio” mix which is a rare and beautiful solution. I always listen to the studio mix for full immersion.

I like the Studio mix better too. It’s maybe a bit much at times with the “immersion“, but it has energy. And I don’t recall any instruments coming discretely from places which make no sense.

The Theatrical mix is too dry for my tastes. Maybe it works better when viewed on the big screen.

 

[Plan9]

In most cases I don't like live recordings. I like them when the artist does something new with the songs (eg. The Kinks - One From the Road, Joe Jackson - Summer in the City, etc.) For this reason, I don't buy many live recordings,

Contradictory to the above, I do enjoy concert films, even if the artist isn't providing new interpretations of the songs. I like the "live atmosphere" and seeing the artists perform. But since I am not there I prefer these releases present a discrete surround mix. Watching on a screen doesn't replace the energy of a being there.

To me the best way to compensate for missing the live energy is to have a great discrete surround mix.

I'm with you here.