HiRez Poll Marillion - SCRIPT FOR A JESTER'S TEAR [Blu-Ray Audio]

[MCDave]

I did not experience the bass problem that @MCDave reported either on PCM or DTS. On the contrary, the bass lines are much more prominent on the 5.1 & stereo mixes than the original '80s mix. I never really heard before how detailed some of the bass lines were. Perhaps MCDAve meant that the low end output wasn't lighting up his subwoofer?

Yes, that's what I meant. Like you and some others, I too found the bass guitar much better defined than in the original, but it's the deep bass punch that was lacking for me. I've got 2 huge subs with 4 x 12" drivers, and on virtually all of my other surround titles they produce a gigantic, bigger-than-life bass slam. The Gentle Giant mixes come to mind here. Bass normally shakes the room on any other title, but on this one it was like listening with the subs unplugged. That's why I had to check them to see if they were outputting anything. They were, but I could barely detect it with the palm of my hand 3" from the center of the woofers.

I seem to be the only one reporting this, so I'll have to have another listen to confirm.

 

[Beefalo]

Yes, that's what I meant. Like you and some others, I too found the bass guitar much better defined than in the original, but it's the deep bass punch that was lacking for me. I've got 2 huge subs with 4 x 12" drivers, and on virtually all of my other surround titles they produce a gigantic, bigger-than-life bass slam. The Gentle Giant mixes come to mind here. Bass normally shakes the room on any other title, but on this one it was like listening with the subs unplugged. That's why I had to check them to see if they were outputting anything. They were, but I could barely detect it with the palm of my hand 3" from the center of the woofers.

I seem to be the only one reporting this, so I'll have to have another listen to confirm.

Hello MCDave. Wondering what crossover frequency for your subwoofers ?

 

[MCDave]

Hello MCDave. Wondering what crossover frequency for your subwoofers ?

X-over is at 80 Hz.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Getting good bump from my Klipsch KG 5.5s and my sub is reasonably active.
I have to echo what others have said. This is no surround treat, but the fidelity smokes.
I'd sure like to hear Andy and Avril walk through their mixing choices...

 

[JediJoker]

I'd sure like to hear Andy and Avril walk through their mixing choices...

Reach out for an interview!

 

[edisonbaggins]

Reach out for an interview!

I've made contact with Andy. We're exchanging emails, at this point. If anybody would like me to pass along a question or comment, I will if the opportunity arises.
(I'm also attempting to contact Avril. And I've offered email, or some form of calls for correspondence to both).

 

[edisonbaggins]

I've made contact with Andy. We're exchanging emails, at this point. If anybody would like me to pass along a question or comment, I will if the opportunity arises.
(I'm also attempting to contact Avril. And I've offered email, or some form of calls for correspondence to both).

Avril has made contact too. I've let them know where I'm coming from: that early listeners are calling the mix very conservative and I want to get their perspective to try to understand and give the fairest review possible. She says she'll reach out to Andy and hopefully we'll have a meaningful dialog.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Avril has made contact too. I've let them know where I'm coming from: that early listeners are calling the mix very conservative and I want to get their perspective to try to understand and give the fairest review possible. She says she'll reach out to Andy and hopefully we'll have a meaningful dialog.

What I believe to be meaningful dialog is ensuing. I can tell you that they are both very nice people.

 

[splinter7]

I've made contact with Andy. We're exchanging emails, at this point. If anybody would like me to pass along a question or comment, I will if the opportunity arises.
(I'm also attempting to contact Avril. And I've offered email, or some form of calls for correspondence to both).

Awesome!
Certain that you will cover the majority of bases with your questions (why the conservative mix given number of effects in the original and such) so
I would be interested to know why they did not create a 5.1 mix for the Market Square Heroes EP.

As for comments:
If they are slated to do work for Fugazi (or any of the final two deluxe editions after that), could they please, please, please include a 5.1 mix of all relevant B-Sides, Bonus Tracks, and such from the respective era.

If those decisions are beyond their control, can they point out the person who we can best plead our case too?

 

[edisonbaggins]

Awesome!
Certain that you will cover the majority of bases with your questions (why the conservative mix given number of effects in the original and such) so
I would be interested to know why they did not create a 5.1 mix for the Market Square Heroes EP.

As for comments:
If they are slated to do work for Fugazi (or any of the final two deluxe editions after that), could they please, please, please include a 5.1 mix of all relevant B-Sides, Bonus Tracks, and such from the respective era.

If those decisions are beyond their control, can they point out the person who we can best plead our case too?

I'm passing your comments and questions along.

 

[César]

I'm passing your comments and questions along.

Mike, can you ask them if there are any plans for the album's beyond Seasons End?
And also if they receive any inputs from the band while mixing.

Thanks!

 

[edisonbaggins]

Mike, can you ask them if there are any plans for the album's beyond Seasons End?
And also if they receive any inputs from the band while mixing.

Thanks!

I sure will pass on your question, when I get the chance.

Yes, they do receive band input. Unfortunately, it seems that some of the input they got for Script was to tame at least one thing they tried:
"We actually did have some more vocal stuff at the back initially on 5.1 album, but when we went back to review it with Mark Kelly, we all decided it didn’t sound right. I don’t know why this is, but we all felt it." - Andy Bradfield email

 

[César]

I sure will pass on your question, when I get the chance.

Yes, they do receive band input. Unfortunately, it seems that some of the input they got for Script was to tame at least one thing they tried:
"We actually did have some more vocal stuff at the back initially on 5.1 album, but when we went back to review it with Mark Kelly, we all decided it didn’t sound right. I don’t know why this is, but we all felt it." - Andy Bradfield email

Good to hear that the band is involved in the decisions, although that does not always guarantee that they are the right ones

 

[edisonbaggins]

Good to hear that the band is involved in the decisions, although that does not always guarantee that they are the right ones

Yeah... I have pointed out to them that the band approved more active mixes for Misplaced Childhood and Brave.

 

[MCDave]

I'm thrilled that they're willing to have a dialog about this, and thank you @edisonbaggins for reaching out to them. I hope they aren't offended by our negative opinions too much. It should be interesting to see if this all results in a more aggressive approach with Fugazi.

 

[edisonbaggins]

From Avril:

"I’m sorry I’m not able to answer all your questions, at a later date but at the moment I am involved with helping my London communities Covid 19 action group so this will have to wait sorry.

Thank you for the offer of Mary’s blu Ray - but……. I will get a copy from her website! Got to support artists at this time!

And lastly do you know how long it took to Mix 2 versions of Grendel and a complete live show - that will answer your question about why no MSH ep."

Again, she and Andy have been very cool. They have both worked with Bob Clearmountain, so I've sent them information about the poll standings for their Clutching at Straws mix, compared to Bob's work. Plus I linked them to a folder of great multichannel mixes, including some Elliot Scheiner, Bob Clearmountain, Greg Penny and Steven Wilson.

My goal is just to raise their awareness that there are surround music lovers who want them to utilize the surrounds more boldly, and to understand their perspective too.

 

[minimumtumbleweed]

From Avril:

"I’m sorry I’m not able to answer all your questions, at a later date but at the moment I am involved with helping my London communities Covid 19 action group so this will have to wait sorry.

Thank you for the offer of Mary’s blu Ray - but……. I will get a copy from her website! Got to support artists at this time!

And lastly do you know how long it took to Mix 2 versions of Grendel and a complete live show - that will answer your question about why no MSH ep."

Again, she and Andy have been very cool. They have both worked with Bob Clearmountain, so I've sent them information about the poll standings for their Clutching at Straws mix, compared to Bob's work. Plus I linked them to a folder of great multichannel mixes, including some Elliot Scheiner, Bob Clearmountain, Greg Penny and Steven Wilson.

My goal is just to raise their awareness that there are surround music lovers who want them to utilize the surrounds more boldly, and to understand their perspective too.

Really interesting. Thanks for taking the time to dig in and get some info straight from the horse's mouth. Script and Fugazi are probably my least favourite Marillion albums, down there with Happiness is the Road. I have listened to the stereo remix though, and wow, you guys aren't kidding. It sounds like a new recording. The old mix was incredibly muddy from my recollection. It's too bad about the surround, but I'll stake the stereo anyhow.

Apropos Clutching at Straws, I'm thinking that it actually mirrors their work on that album. It's very clean and brash. This works for Script; I don't think it worked as well for CaS.

 

[MCDave]

I finally had some time to listen to the 5.1 mix again, so I tried the LPCM tracks instead of the DTS bitstream. The fidelity sounded really good, and the bass had just a tad more weight than I had reported earlier. Unfortunately my previous assessment still stands in the other respects. On the bright side though, the 90-minute documentary is really good, and Grendel in its new stereo mix never sounded so good.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Unfortunately my previous assessment still stands in the other respects. On the bright side though, the 90-minute documentary is really good, and Grendel in its new stereo mix never sounded so good.

While I share a lot of your disappointment, I have to disagree that there is utterly nothing discrete in the surrounds. There are, from time to time, keyboard parts, guitar and some Fish banter.
I think a major problem in terms of surround interest is that they typically choose non-melodic, more supportive material, like a keyboard patch that provides some chordal wash and texture, but doesn't have much musical intricacy to draw one's attention. Also, the surrounds are mixed pretty low. I noticed more material back there when I bumped my surrounds up 3 db. Unfortunately, this also boosts the already considerable snare drum reverb that they panned back there, to the point of being a bit much for me.

Another interesting tid-bit from Andy: they had a 24-track recording to work with this time (this all might be covered in the documentary - I wouldn't know yet). CaS was 48-track.
So, it would seem they did have a bit less to work with, in terms of choices of parts and layers.

On the positive side, Script was recorded analog and was transferred at 96k, and the signal chain was kept 96k all the way to the blu-ray.
CaS was released at 48k because it was recorded digitally at 48k.

That's all for now! Stay safe and healthy everyone.

 

[JediJoker]

Mike, can you ask them if there are any plans for the album's beyond Seasons End?

All the albums whose sound recording copyright is still owned by Parlophone (formerly EMI) are planned—that is, Script through Sunlight. So, just Fugazi, Seasons, and Holidays left to go, now.