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Mary Travers Mary EV 4?

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Q8

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Okay, maybe this discussion has been had but I looked around the board and in other places and couldn't find anything. In the Mark Anderson Discography, it has this listing:

MARY TRAVERS - Mary. Warner Brothers WS-1907 (EV)

Is this album really EV 4? How do you know? I looked at the album today and saw no mention of EV 4 or Stereo-4 anywhere on it. If you have proof that this record is EV 4 or any links to discussions on this, please post it. I couldn't find any. I've been getting into learning more about EV 4 since I got a decoder. I've read all of the forums very few threads on the subject (or so I believe).
 

rustyandi

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I have played the LP right through
With the Surround Master
My gut feeling that it is not EV4
Some tracks are one sided front left rear left the same level you get this on stereo LPs
although a number of tracks have a good surround effect
It is hard to tell if it was EV4 they may have done a soft Quad mix as not to
have an effect on stereo playback
and the S/Master is sutch a great Synthesizer it makes it hard to tell at times
But if I am proved wrong so be it

Ron
 

Q8

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Linda:

Usually when it hits the MA discography it's legit. The only thing I find odd, is that usually there is some sort of conversation or reference somewhere else on the net. There is no conversations about it here, or anywhere. The only reference of it being EV 4 is on the MA site. I would like to know the story behind it.

Ron:

From the research I have done on EV 4, contrary to popular belief. EV 4 is not really at all compatable with QS. The math supposedly is completely different and does not utilize phase shifts. Most EV 4 discs play well through QS decoders, but only in the way that a lot of stereo records do. More of a happy accident than a result of the EV 4 encoding. So it is possible that while it probably wouldn't be bombastic, an actual EV 4 decoder (not the universal EV 4 decoder, that one is practically QS) could pull things from the recording that the Surround Master does not.

I can't find my copy of this LP so I will need to find another one (shouldn't be too hard, pretty common record). I have an EV 4 decoder and I have the Surround Master with SQ ordered, and now I have a scope so maybe I can run some tests at some point.
 

rustyandi

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Did you see the Vectorscope display
EV4 decoded with the surround master?
I have a number of EV4 LPs and they decode
as a Quad LP and do not pull from the front channels when
there is a rear channel solo

ron
 

cupboy

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It could be a secret EV-4. WEA did some Dy's & EV-4's like Beaver & Krause and Beach Boys in the early Quad days.....
So I guess that's why Beach Boys Surf's Up decoded so nicely using the RM button on the 2020. Better than most of the SQ stuff.
 

Q8

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I never looked at the EV 4 reports through the Surround Master. Do you have a link to that?

From the things that I have read, strait EV 4 was completely incompatable with QS (at least from the standpoint of decoding what was originally encoded). Maybe what I read was wrong. They made the universal EV 4 decoders which kind of blended EV 4 and QS, but I've read that those just butchered both (while it synthesized decently). I wonder if there was a different later EV 4 encoding that was more like QS to go with the Universal Decoders. Maybe that would explain why you got good results? Were you using early EV 4 albums, later or both?
 

quadsearcher

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http://www.involveaudio.com/blogs/news/7253366-involve-decode-of-electro-voice-ev4

This is a topic I can really relate to. I got into quad a few years ago because of some interviews with Stephen Desper, who recorded the Beach Boys quads and some related stuff, The Flame LP and possible some BB solo records. I can't find those interviews on line any more, or his book, Recording The Beach Boys. http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=33.0
In one interview he said they had four speakers in the control room and implied he mixed not discreetly, but through encode/decode. This seems to mean to me that to hear it "as it was intended", it would be through the relatively poor 3dB of separation (or whatever it was) of the original EV-4 decoder. So I'm looking forward to a evaluation of the sound of that AD-2002, Q8! (and wish I had bought that one for $16 mentioned in another thread)

That said, it might be much better to hear these with better separation than was available back then. That's why I'm so interested in the placement of sounds in a QS decoder being in the same placement in the soundfield as EV-4. It doesn't seem possible. However, the first record played in the video above shows the channel of highest amplitude changing in a circle.

Ron, was that selection from a test record that was supposed to playback on EV-4 with a clockwise pan? If so, it seems to confirm what is said that EV-4 decodes well through QS.
 

EMB

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It's also possible that only a few selected tracks might be EV. I've got that Lp somewhere, never thought about any of it being quad. Would be a kick if it was!

ED :)
 

rustyandi

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I have no EV4 disc's that give the channel checks
So I don't know witch way it is intended to go
It just goes around
But as you see the other tracks have rear solo's
and don't drag the front stereo image
The track
It was a very good year
was from a Enoch Light LP EV4

There a list of EV4 LPs
a few are not EV4

EV4
1 Ovation OD/1
2 Beach Boys Surf’s Up
2A Beach Boys Surf’s Up(New Heavy Vinyl)
3 Beach Boys Sunflower
4 Jones Tommy Tommy’s Place
5 Bonnie Koloc After All This Time
6 Enoch Light Brass Menagerie
7 Enoch Light Brass Menegerie Vol.2
8 Enoch Light Permissive Polyphonics
9 Big Band Moog
10 QS-1 101 Strings Soul Of Spain Vol 3
11 QS-2 101 Strings Exciting Sounds
12 QS-3 Multiple Guitars
13 QS-4 101 Strings Todays Hits
14 Horn Paul & Concert Ensemble
15 Rich Mountain Tower
16 Hollins & Star Sidewalks Are Talking
17 Billy & Garry Mure Quad Spectalar
18 Sony Costanzo Sonny’s Song
19 Beaver & Kraus Gandharva
20 Travers Mary Mary
21 Crewe Bob Generation
22 The Flame (Brother Lable)
23 Johannesen Grant Plays American Piano Music
24 Schory Dick Movin’ On
25 Turner Jim Well Tempered Saw
26 Carl & Passions So Tough
27 Godzundheit
28 Erickson Tapes
29 Supercord Contempory
30 Dynaco 4 Demensional Demo Record
31 Pioneer 4 Channel Record PQX-1002
32 Otto 4 Channel Demo Nas-230
33 Otto 4 Channel Demo Nas-215
34 Otto 4 Channel Demo Nas-225
35 Fisher Test & Performance CD4-SQ
36 Quadrafile SQ-QS CD4-UD4 2 LPs
37 Mussorgsky Picutures At An Exibition (DBX Encoded)
38 Invasion U.S.A (Dolby Encoded)???
39 Holst The Planets St. Louis Sym. (DBX Encoded)
40 Beaver & Krause All Good Men
41 Strauss Richard Salome Don Jaun Cincinnati Sym. (DBX-QS)
42 A Slavonic Festival St. Louis Sym. Slatkin.(DBX-QS)
43 Beaver & Krause In A Wild Sanctuary
44 Ferrari Larry Encore
45 Tweedy Don Chorus & Orch
46 Salzedo Sonata Fraicheur. Adams Galante (Sound Storage)
47 Bondon Claude Debussy Carter Chamber Orch.(Sound Storage)
48 Carl & Passions So Tough/Pet Sounds 2 LPs
49 Otto 4 Channel Demo Nas-340
50 Florida All-State 1972 (3LPs)
51 Steele Ron Chicago Guitar
 

Q8

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Of those LPs, does anyone know which ones had special quad versions, or at least were listed somewhere on them that they were quadraphonic, EV 4 or Stereo-4?

That may be a tall order, but I feel like EV-4 hunting.
 

Quad Linda

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All titles on the list from Ovation Records were EV-4 only on LP. Some were later re-pressed in QS. I believe Bonnie Koloc was one of those that were repressed. The WB/WEA titles were only done in EV-4, but not marked as such. Some of the WB/WEA's only had selected cuts mixed in Quad. To my knowledge, even a modern CD of the WB/WEA titles would still have the encoding intact.

z538.jpg
note the EV stereo 4 logo rectangle at the bottom of the sticker

Of those LPs, does anyone know which ones had special quad versions, or at least were listed somewhere on them that they were quadraphonic, EV 4 or Stereo-4?

That may be a tall order, but I feel like EV-4 hunting.
 

Q8

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Also, aren't there some DY discs on that list. I know that DY was Dynaco's encoding process. How different is that from EV 4?
 

rustyandi

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From what I have seen on the disc's
DY is almost like Dolby pro logic 1
in that stereo front and mono to rear channels
EV4 tries to give 4 channels
I have only a couple of DY disc's
but only that says DY on it
The beach Boys seem to be DY
On the Surround Master you get sometimes
almost a stereo rear on some tracks
It tends to be a bit one sided in the rear
But I can adjust the levels with a knob on my table
so easy fixed
one of the advantages of being a Surround nut

But a list of DY disc's would be very short
 

EMB

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I would imagine...and what you describe would essentially be Dolby Surround, right? The idea was that you'd have a three-channel effect--L/C/R--in front, with ambience or effects (or, if altering a quad tape, as was done for the Tomita catalog on CD, putting a channel in the rears). But yes, there can't be all that many EV albums out there.

ED :)
 

Q8

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I only have one official EV 4 record as far as I know, and thats the Enoch Light Demonstration LP
 

Q8

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http://www.involveaudio.com/blogs/news/7253366-involve-decode-of-electro-voice-ev4

This is a topic I can really relate to. I got into quad a few years ago because of some interviews with Stephen Desper, who recorded the Beach Boys quads and some related stuff, The Flame LP and possible some BB solo records. I can't find those interviews on line any more, or his book, Recording The Beach Boys. http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=33.0
In one interview he said they had four speakers in the control room and implied he mixed not discreetly, but through encode/decode. This seems to mean to me that to hear it "as it was intended", it would be through the relatively poor 3dB of separation (or whatever it was) of the original EV-4 decoder. So I'm looking forward to a evaluation of the sound of that AD-2002, Q8! (and wish I had bought that one for $16 mentioned in another thread)

That said, it might be much better to hear these with better separation than was available back then. That's why I'm so interested in the placement of sounds in a QS decoder being in the same placement in the soundfield as EV-4. It doesn't seem possible. However, the first record played in the video above shows the channel of highest amplitude changing in a circle.

Ron, was that selection from a test record that was supposed to playback on EV-4 with a clockwise pan? If so, it seems to confirm what is said that EV-4 decodes well through QS.
That clockwise pan is cool. It really seems more than a happy accident. Seems to go against what I know about EV 4 encoding though.
 

rustyandi

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You may notice on the Beach boys
Surf's Up
It says that it will decode with a EV4 or DY system
but not say what encoding they use
on a number of early Quad LPs they say
it will decode on a number of systems
on the Beaver & Kraus LPs it says Quad but not witch one
ron
 

Q8

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I was playing with the device a little last night. It's still not hooked up to a quad setup properly at the time being. I was listening to an 8-track player and testing all the channels. On a compilation 8-track it had The Little Old Lady From Pasedena by Jan and Dean. I believe I was listening to the rear channels at the time that song came on, I noticed. Where are the background vocals? (you know, the go granny go granny go granny go's and whatnot) There wasn't even any ghost of them in the rear(there may have been the slightest ghost/crosstalk, but it was so slight you would really have to crank it to just barely hear it). Then I discovered that the background vocals were solidly and almost discretely in Left Front. I found that to be quite impressive from a little 1 ic no logic Heathkit EV 4 decoder synthesizing quad from a 1967 stereo recording. That must be why people like these old EV 4 boxes for synthesizing quad so much.
 

Q8

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25 Turner Jim Well Tempered Saw
I was looking through that ist again and saw that title. I didn't know there was any saw music in quad. I need saw music in quad like I need air

WELLTEMPEREDSAW.jpg
 
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