Oppo OPDV971H - Widescreen DVDA problems confirmed

[neil wilkes]

This is just in from Oppo service, and as it is important I thought it should be posted here.
The implications are not great.

The OPDV971H will completely choke on a 16:9 flagged DVD-Audio disc. Unfortunately this is a known issue with this player that can't be resolved due to the decoder manufacturer no longer supporting this series of decoders.

I am still waiting to see what other players are affected.
Oppo have already stated they will update all players that can still be updated to fix this issue.

The warning is basically that all the new King Crimson titles will be in 16:9 format, as is the new PT title.
Owners of this player will *not* be able to play the title in MLP Lossless unless they contact Burning Shed or DGM in advance, and there will be a process in place to deal with these customers.

I am really sorry about this problem - other players that are known to be affected include all pioneer players built up to & including 2006, a couple of Onkyo machines, a Yamaha S1500, and Denon 1910 units. We have yet to confirm the details but suspect that it is down to the same decoder being used.
Some of the Pioneer machines and at least one of the Onkyo machines have firmware updates that will fix this problem and we are also working with Oppo to ensure all current players will be able to access the full content of 16:9 formatted discs.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

The Oppo DV971HD used MediaTek MT1389xx and Faroudja FLI2310 and I don't know whether the problem is specific to MediaTek or as a result of that combination but popular DVD-A players from that era, often used one or both. I suspect MediaTek is the culprit here and it is not a combination of chips that causes the problem. Good grief, the list of players from 2004 to 2007 that don't have the problem is probably shorter than the list that does. It will be interesting to see if the Oppo DV-970H, DV-980H, DV-981HD and DV-983H which all use versions of MediaTek MT1389 have the problem. Cambridge Audio has clones of several of the Oppo players beginnig with the DV971HD. Here is a list of the various MediaTek chips:

http://www.mediatek.com/en/product/list.php?cata1=2

MT8520
MT1389/R
MT1389/K
MT1389/L
MT1389/M
MT1389/S
MT1389/KP
MT1389/LP

Worse case is all of the MT1389 variations have the problem and if that is the case, the list of players with the problem is going to be huge. If somewhere along the line, it was fixed by MediaTek then I can sure help determine which players will be bad and which ones won't. The Oppo Blu-ray players, the BDP-83 and BDP-80 use MT8520. As you have already noted, quite a number of Pioneer players use MediaTek MT1389xx. I don't have any of the King Crimson DVD-A's so I can't check any in my fleet of players.

Chris

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Beginning with the Oppo DV-970H, Oppo offered players using MediaTek for everything, a single chip solution. Those players are the DV-970H and DV-980H. The DV-981HD is another MediaTek/Faroudja player and the DV-983H is MediaTek/Anchor Bay Technologies. The Oppo BDP-80 is MediaTek SoC and the BDP-83 is MediaTek/Anchor Bay Technologies. There are clones of these Oppo players from various manufacturers. In general the design with the multichip players was to use MediaTek for decoding and Faroudja or Anchor Bay for deinterlacing, scaling and perhaps other functions which may mean straight MediaTek players have avoided the problem, I can only speculate so far based on what I know but I am confident we can get to the bottom of the problem's source and identify most, maybe all players with the problem.

The Samsung universal players from years ago, the DVD-HD841, DVD-HD941 and DVD-HD950 used a Zoran Vaddis chip for decoding and in the case of the DVD-HD941 used Faroudja FLI23xx for scaling and probably deintelacing. I don't think any of the Zoran Vaddis players will have the problem but there are enough of them around that shouldn't be hard to determine.

Chris

 

[user 4725]

The warning is basically that all the new King Crimson titles will be in 16:9 format, as is the new PT title.
Owners of this player will *not* be able to play the title in MLP Lossless unless they contact Burning Shed or DGM in advance, and there will be a process in place to deal with these customers.

I am really sorry about this problem - other players that are known to be affected include all pioneer players built up to & including 2006

does this include the KC DVD-As already released? I ask because I have a pre-2006 Pioneer DV-757Ai and that has no problems playing the KC discs. I also have a DV-565A which I can test if required. Could you also give a brief description of the symptoms when a disc fails to play?

TIA,
H.

 

[timbre4]

The Samsung universal players from years ago, the DVD-HD841, DVD-HD941 and DVD-HD950 used a Zoran Vaddis chip for decoding and in the case of the DVD-HD941 used Faroudja FLI23xx for scaling and probably deintelacing. I don't think any of the Zoran Vaddis players will have the problem but there are enough of them around that shouldn't be hard to determine.
Chris

Have played at least KC - Red on a Samsung DVD-HD841 here witn no problems at all.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Have played at least KC - Red on a Samsung DVD-HD841 here witn no problems at all.

I am sure all of the Samsung universal players will play the disc then and probably all of the KC discs.

Chris

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I think the 757ai uses something other than MediaTek, isn't it around 2003 vintage? The DV-578a and DV-588a both use MediaTek MT1389xx and it will be interesting to see how they do. The DV-563a and DV-565a are unknown but I suspect a chip other than MediaTek is used for decoding. Basically with Pioneer, I think most of the pre 2005 models will not include MediaTek and after that the less expensive models will.

Chris

does this include the KC DVD-As already released? I ask because I have a pre-2006 Pioneer DV-757Ai and that has no problems playing the KC discs. I also have a DV-565A which I can test if required. Could you also give a brief description of the symptoms when a disc fails to play?

TIA,
H.

 

[user 4725]

I think the 757ai uses something other than MediaTek, isn't it around 2003 vintage? The DV-578a and DV-588a both use MediaTek MT1389xx and it will be interesting to see how they do. The DV-563a and DV-565a are unknown but I suspect a chip other than MediaTek is used for decoding. Basically with Pioneer, I think most of the pre 2005 models will not include MediaTek and after that the less expensive models will.

OK, thanks for that. I just tried 'Red' on my DV-565A and it plays just fine so with luck I shouldn't have any issues (which is a great relief as I'm a big fan of both KC and PT!)

 

[Chris Gerhard]

a Yamaha S1500, and Denon 1910 units. We have yet to confirm the details but suspect that it is down to the same decoder being used.
Some of the Pioneer machines and at least one of the Onkyo machines have firmware updates that will fix this problem and we are also working with Oppo to ensure all current players will be able to access the full content of 16:9 formatted discs.

I have the Yamaha DVD-S1500, I am not certain of all of the chips in that one but I do know it uses LSI Ziva 5 for MPEG decoding and Faroudja FLI23xx for deinterlacing. I sure don't believe a MediaTek chip of any kind is in the player but I don't want to take it apart to see. I don't have the Denon DVD-1910 but I do own the DVD-2910 and DVD-1920. The DVD-2910 uses ESS Vibrato for MPEG decoding and Faroudja FLI2310 for deinterlacing and scaling. The Denon DVD-1910 uses Faroudja FLI2301 for deinterlacing and scaling but I don't know which decoder is used.

Chris

 

[jefe1]

I have an oppo 970H and have played the three KC DVDAs with no problems. If its not playing the hirez stream well it sounds pretty good to me....

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I have an oppo 970H and have played the three KC DVDAs with no problems. If its not playing the hirez stream well it sounds pretty good to me....

Try the MLP and see what happens. That is a MediaTek MT1389xx player, a newer version of the MediaTek chip than used with the Oppo DV971HD, the next Oppo player after the DV971HD is the DV-970H.

Chris

 

[Chris Gerhard]

It appears the DV971HD uses MediaTek MT1389DE, the DV-981HD uses MediaTek MT1389EE. Some of the various Pioneer players using a MediaTek MT1389xx are DV-578A, DV-588A-S, DV-490V, DV-696AV, DV-46AV, DV-400V, DV-600AV, DV-48AV, DV-410V, DV-610AV, DV-49AV, and DV-420V. I can't figure out which players use which chips yet and my above link to MediaTek only includes the more recent versions of the chip. If this was fixed somewhere along the line of MT1389xx chips by MediaTek, that would be nice to know. If it is all players using any version of MT1389xx, then none of this matters, that will be a lot of players.

Chris

 

[neil wilkes]

Latest information in from the EXTREMELY helpful guys at Oppo Support.
I cannot begin to thank them enough for the effort they are going to here, and the range of affected machines is not going to be that high.

The chipset in question is the MT1389EE chipset.
Now, we know that some of these players did get a fix - there are firmware updates for this that have been referred to in threads about issues with certain 16:9 formatted DVDA I have authored before.
There is an Onkyo with the issue (fixable), at least 2 of t he Pioneer range (also fixable, and I will be contacting Pioneer again very soon for the rest).
Also known to have the problem is a Yamaha (S1500? cannot remember) and possibly the Denon 1910. Out of all the numbers of titles in 16:9 I know have been sold, we have very few reports of issues
and every single one can be fixed with a written disc formatted as 4:3 using the same project and the 16:9 assets, and oddly enough when outputting via HDMI most flatscreens stretch the image out anyway.

So anyway, Oppo have kindly told me they will provide up to date firmware for all players, including older obsolete ones, so that I can always give these to anyone who has issues.
The DV-971H and the DV-981HD are lost causes though, as although the chipset in question did apparently receive some minor tweaks - Oppo say this may well be what enabled updates to fix other players - they cannot be updated. These appear to be the only 2 Oppo players affected that cannot be updated.

The BDP-80 also may choke on a 16:9 DVDA, if the TV setting is set to AUTO. The fix here is to reset to 16:9, and all will be well.

In closing, I would once again like toi say a massive "Thank You" to Oppo support. They have been magnificent here in helping sort out the specific reason this irritating issue is happening.
We will also be sending them versions of every disc we author in future to check for compatibility issues.
They truly deserve to be the "Official" QQ "Top Manufacturer" without a doubt.

 

[neil wilkes]

I have the Yamaha DVD-S1500, I am not certain of all of the chips in that one but I do know it uses LSI Ziva 5 for MPEG decoding and Faroudja FLI23xx for deinterlacing. I sure don't believe a MediaTek chip of any kind is in the player but I don't want to take it apart to see. I don't have the Denon DVD-1910 but I do own the DVD-2910 and DVD-1920. The DVD-2910 uses ESS Vibrato for MPEG decoding and Faroudja FLI2310 for deinterlacing and scaling. The Denon DVD-1910 uses Faroudja FLI2301 for deinterlacing and scaling but I don't know which decoder is used.

Chris

Chris, Can I send you some stuff to check for me?? I may be mistaken about the Yamaha model - it's mentioned what one it is somewhere on the board though.
Most of the ones we know were affected have updates that sort the issue out, and we are trying to compile a definitive list of players that choke on 16:9.
I used to have a Denon 1910 way back when it first came out, and had a lot of trouble with it myself.
At the time, I blamed discwelder Chrome being buggy for the problem.....and traded it up to a 2910 - no more trouble since.
We now have a 3910 too - superb machine. Next up will be an Oppo Universal for me.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Latest information in from the EXTREMELY helpful guys at Oppo Support.
I cannot begin to thank them enough for the effort they are going to here, and the range of affected machines is not going to be that high.

The chipset in question is the MT1389EE chipset.
Now, we know that some of these players did get a fix - there are firmware updates for this that have been referred to in threads about issues with certain 16:9 formatted DVDA I have authored before.
There is an Onkyo with the issue (fixable), at least 2 of t he Pioneer range (also fixable, and I will be contacting Pioneer again very soon for the rest).
Also known to have the problem is a Yamaha (S1500? cannot remember) and possibly the Denon 1910. Out of all the numbers of titles in 16:9 I know have been sold, we have very few reports of issues
and every single one can be fixed with a written disc formatted as 4:3 using the same project and the 16:9 assets, and oddly enough when outputting via HDMI most flatscreens stretch the image out anyway.

So anyway, Oppo have kindly told me they will provide up to date firmware for all players, including older obsolete ones, so that I can always give these to anyone who has issues.
The DV-971H and the DV-981HD are lost causes though, as although the chipset in question did apparently receive some minor tweaks - Oppo say this may well be what enabled updates to fix other players - they cannot be updated. These appear to be the only 2 Oppo players affected that cannot be updated.

The BDP-80 also may choke on a 16:9 DVDA, if the TV setting is set to AUTO. The fix here is to reset to 16:9, and all will be well.

In closing, I would once again like toi say a massive "Thank You" to Oppo support. They have been magnificent here in helping sort out the specific reason this irritating issue is happening.
We will also be sending them versions of every disc we author in future to check for compatibility issues.
They truly deserve to be the "Official" QQ "Top Manufacturer" without a doubt.

It is certainly good to hear that MediaTek fixed it along the way. Of course the DV971HD and DV-981HD were popular players so the problem is serious enough. There will be one or two Cambridge Audio players with the same issue. Oppo customer support is unique in my experience, I don't know how a manufacturer of mostly budget Blu-ray/DVD players can offer support superior to just about how any other, including manufacturers of expensive players.

Have you tried to contact Pioneer about the players with the issue? Pioneer should have access to the same MediaTek updates to build a firmware update around it to fix it for all versions that are updateable.

Chris

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Chris, Can I send you some stuff to check for me?? I may be mistaken about the Yamaha model - it's mentioned what one it is somewhere on the board though.
Most of the ones we know were affected have updates that sort the issue out, and we are trying to compile a definitive list of players that choke on 16:9.
I used to have a Denon 1910 way back when it first came out, and had a lot of trouble with it myself.
At the time, I blamed discwelder Chrome being buggy for the problem.....and traded it up to a 2910 - no more trouble since.
We now have a 3910 too - superb machine. Next up will be an Oppo Universal for me.

The DVD-1910 had a poor reputation based on what I read so I passed on it. It was an early Funai made universal player and I don't know which company made the DVD-2910 but if it was Funai, it was a much better player. I will be happy to test anything you need me to test.

Chris

 

[Kazaam]

The DV-971H and the DV-981HD are lost causes though, as although the chipset in question did apparently receive some minor tweaks - Oppo say this may well be what enabled updates to fix other players - they cannot be updated. These appear to be the only 2 Oppo players affected that cannot be updated.

I suspect there may be some technical aspect of the authoring stuff that I'm not fully understanding but, with that said...

I have a DV-981HD and it seemingly plays the MLP 5.1 section of both "Lizard" and "In The Court of the King Crimson" perfectly. I went back to make sure that the player indicated the MLP layer, just to be sure. Hmmm.... I wonder if there is a menu setting combination that I stumbled upon that somehow made it work for me... or maybe I'm just lucky? Or... Unless those particular DVD-A's are flagged differently than the upcoming second batch of KC discs?

I also don't recall any issues with Nash's "Songs For Beginers", which I think has a 16:9 main menu if my memory is correct.

However, I did notice recently that my DV-981HD has slight issues playing the Talking Heads dualdiscs which, I didn't remember, appears to have 16:9 menus, too. The hiccup being that I would have to hit the 'play' button to 'unfreeze' each subsequent screen. (Example: from main menu, select 'tracks'... then freezes and cannot select an individual track until I hit 'play', and then the secondary menu 'unfreezes' and the cursor appears allowing me to select a track. I don't recall this issue back when I was using my DVD-2200, so maybe it is an Oppo '981 thing?)

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I suspect there may be some technical aspect of the authoring stuff that I'm not fully understanding but, with that said...

I have a DV-981HD and it seemingly plays the MLP 5.1 section of both "Lizard" and "In The Court of the King Crimson" perfectly. I went back to make sure that the player indicated the MLP layer, just to be sure. Hmmm.... I wonder if there is a menu setting combination that I stumbled upon that somehow made it work for me... or maybe I'm just lucky? Or... Unless those particular DVD-A's are flagged differently than the upcoming second batch of KC discs?

I also don't recall any issues with Nash's "Songs For Beginers", which I think has a 16:9 main menu if my memory is correct.

However, I did notice recently that my DV-981HD has slight issues playing the Talking Heads dualdiscs which, I didn't remember, appears to have 16:9 menus, too. The hiccup being that I would have to hit the 'play' button to 'unfreeze' each subsequent screen. (Example: from main menu, select 'tracks'... then freezes and cannot select an individual track until I hit 'play', and then the secondary menu 'unfreezes' and the cursor appears allowing me to select a track. I don't recall this issue back when I was using my DVD-2200, so maybe it is an Oppo '981 thing?)

I believe the DV-981HD uses a newer MediaTek chip than the DV971HD so maybe the 981 doesn't have the problem. When it comes to bugs inherent with certain chips used in a specific player, I don't believe there is anyway to get lucky.

Chris

 

[neil wilkes]

@ Kazam
As far as "Getting Lucky" goes, what are the settings for the TV used?
AUTO on the BDP-80 fails to play the disc, setting to 16:9 works.
Wondering if we may need to do something similar here?? Can you check for me please as Oppo clearly stated this player will lock up on 16:9 DVDA.
Other option is that you may have got one of the last ones built - with a new chipset, as it seems MediaTek did fix it in later revisions.
That is very useful information though, and I am very happy to get it as I'm trying to build up a list of players - and revisions - that have the issue, as well as collect all the fixes.

I will have all Oppo fixes in the next few days & Chris, I will certainly be getting in touch with Pioneer too.

It's a real pain - almost thinking about going back to 4:3 again.

 

[Kazaam]

Hey, Neil… Here’s a bunch of info… Hopefully, the "kitchen sink approach" results in something helpful! Here goes:

The Oppo ‘981 is set to output an upconverted 720p image via HDMI. I have it routed into my Onkyo ‘605 receiver (which I think just passes the HDMI signal untouched) and into a Samsung plasma TV. The TV is set to 16:9 widescreen mode and displays the resolution at 1280x720, which is normal for this set for when receiving a 720p signal.

When I insert the “In The Court of the King Crimson” disc, the Oppo DV981HD indicates the disc is “loading” in the upper left corner, and then it briefly displays “DVD-Audio” once the disc is recognized. Next the “Discipline Global Mobile” image is displayed “pillar-boxed” (looks to be 4:3 with black bars on the left and right since the TV display is 16:9). Finally, the “Discipline Global” screen fades away while the King Crimson main menu fades in at the same time, filling the 16:9 display. Upon playing a song, the Oppo indicates it is playing the MLP section (when I check it by hitting the ‘audio’ button).

Other settings in the Oppo ‘981 are as follows:

General Setup Page
TV Display = "16:9 Wide/Auto"
Screen Saver = On
Light Control = LED Off
Angle Mark = Off
DVD-Audio Mode = DVD-Audio Priority
SACD Priority = Multi Channel
DixX VOD = blank
Subtitle Font = Font3
Alt RC Code = On
Slide Show Interval = 5
OSD Mode = Normal

Video Setup Page:
Sharpness = Off
Brightness/Contrast/Saturation = All are “00”
TrueLife = On
CCS = Off
Noise Reduction = Off
Video Mode = Video2
Color Space = RGB
RGB Range = Normal

Audio Setup Page:
Digital Output = Raw
LPCM Rate = 48K
Audio Ton = 00
Pro Logic II = off
Dolby Digital Setup: Dual Mono = Stereo; Dynamic (DRC)=Off
Audio Delay = 05
HDMI Audio = “Auto”

Speaker Setup Page
Downmix=5.1 CH
Front/Center/Rear Speakers = Large
Subwoofer = On

I'm not sure what firmware version the player has, but I believe it is the last one Oppo issued, if my memory is correct? The one where the description indeicated it had some kind of "SACD fix" and other minor fixes, if I remember correctly.