Steve Hackett back catalog in surround

[blue.monk]

Penteo is very good at this if the original mix has a particularly stable and precise imaging.

So is Penteo a fully-automated process? Is it the same software used for Octopus?

 

[leahypc]

Issue with the upmixes is when you switch to a real 5.1 mix. I'm listening now to Please don't Touch and the difference is night and day. Having said that, Shadow of the Hierophant has never sounded better.
Apart from not having hires stereo mixes of Defector and Voyage, what really bugs me more is the scratching feeling I have every time I insert the discs on the paper inlet, doh!

You gotta get some of those mini-lp plastic sleeves. I hate when discs are packaged like that. One of my DVDs has a huge imprint on it from pressing against the cardboard backing.:howl

 

[wavelength]

Issue with the upmixes is when you switch to a real 5.1 mix.

Sure, that is the issue, for me anyway, when you have an upmix track stuck in between real 5.1 mixes: Warrior at the Edge of Time and Bob Marley Legend for example. It's kinda like the old DTS vs DVD-A argument. What is the tolerance level of the listener? Some people have more tolerance than others. Some will complain and some won't. That's just the way it is. It's pointless to try to change somebody's mind because how one person judges what they hear is different than how another person judges what they hear.

 

[DuncanS]

You gotta get some of those mini-lp plastic sleeves. I hate when discs are packaged like that. One of my DVDs has a huge imprint on it from pressing against the cardboard backing.:howl

That is what I've put mine into before putting them back into the inserts. From,

http://store.soundsourcecds.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_82&products_id=243

 

[wavelength]

That is what I've put mine into before putting them back into the inserts. From,

http://store.soundsourcecds.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_82&products_id=243

Why even screw around with inserts at all? Straight into a CD jewel case - that's what I do. Sure it means I don't use any of the original packaging at all but so be it. Too much fumbling for me otherwise.

 

[DuncanS]

Why even screw around with inserts at all? Straight into a CD jewel case - that's what I do. Sure it means I don't use any of the original packaging at all but so be it. Too much fumbling for me otherwise.

I've run out of shelf space in one room! :yikes I've two alcoves filled with CDs & SACDs, the other room alcove shelves are filling up, but I've some tiered floor standing shelving that's the right size for all these odd box sets, the vinyl sized ones fit well too :bounce I'm going to have to get a bigger house............

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Issue with the upmixes is when you switch to a real 5.1 mix. I'm listening now to Please don't Touch and the difference is night and day. Having said that, Shadow of the Hierophant has never sounded better.
Apart from not having hires stereo mixes of Defector and Voyage, what really bugs me more is the scratching feeling I have every time I insert the discs on the paper inlet, doh!

When I get my new discs they go directly into a double DVD plastic case and I put the original packaging in a plastic zip lock bag(like a 1 quart sandwich bag)...this keeps the original container in pristine condition and you never have to worry about disc damage either...the site I buy from has sales all the time...usually a 100 of these double cases will cost you 40 cents apiece..HERE

 

[Plan9]

So is Penteo a fully-automated process? Is it the same software used for Octopus?

It can be but you want to fine-tune it for a better result.

Yes.

 

[fredblue]

Sorry for going OT a bit but on a related tangent, I do wish somebody here with influence (hint hint ) could whisper in the ears of the movers and shakers at Universal to allow upmixes of the two Steely Dan/Aja songs that are allegedly lacking multi's so that we can have a surround presentation of that album at last.. its a weird and wonderful world when albums from Gentle Giant, Quatermass, Hawkwind, Tears For Fears and Steve Hackett can see release in surround form and yet (and this is not meant to denigrate those albums and artists) a stone cold classic album such as Aja which would no doubt do good business in Hi-res Surround seems unlikely to receive such a release when 5 of its 7 songs are said to exist in multitrack form in the vaults.. kooky and (as its halloween weekend) a bit spooky

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Sorry for going OT a bit but on a related tangent, I do wish somebody here with influence (hint hint ) could whisper in the ears of the movers and shakers at Universal to allow upmixes of the two Steely Dan/Aja songs that are allegedly lacking multi's so that we can have a surround presentation of that album at last.. its a weird and wonderful world when albums from Gentle Giant, Quatermass, Hawkwind, Tears For Fears and Steve Hackett can see release in surround form and yet (and this is not meant to denigrate those albums and artists) a stone cold classic album such as Aja which would no doubt do good business in Hi-res Surround seems unlikely to receive such a release when 5 of its 7 songs are said to exist in multitrack form in the vaults.. kooky and (as its halloween weekend) a bit spooky

I'd love to see Aja given the surround treatment....I doubt it would ever happen...BUT after what has happened this year with the Doors...Beatles...and Fleetwood Mac...as Bond would say...Never Say Never...it's not like Steely Dan would object...with their surround background they are the perfect candidate...we just need some insider to step up and present this idea to the people who could make it happen...it's just too bad that Marshall isn't in a position to do it...you wouldn't need to sell it to some indifferent "bean counter"....he gets it...but dealing with Universal is a different story...you would probably get that "deer in the headlights" look if it was mentioned...

 

[rtbluray]

I think there's definitely a reason why "Aja" was never mixed in surround with upmixes for the two opening tracks.
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker likely objected to the use of upmixing, as they probably wanted truly discrete mixes for every song on the album, and if they couldn't get that, they probably felt it wasn't worth releasing a surround sound version when the stereo mixes would still be definitive for a lot of fans.
I'm definitely not opposed to upmixes for the first two tracks if it means getting the other songs as discrete mixes released, but I always think it's best to concentrate on remixing albums for which the full multitracks exist first, so in Steely Dan's case, that would include releasing that supposed unreleased 5.1 mix of "Pretzel Logic" and mixing other albums like "Katy Lied" and (especially) "The Royal Scam" in surround.

BUT, since this is a Steve Hackett thread, let's get back on topic, shall we?
I haven't received my box yet, but I have thoroughly enjoyed all of the opinions on the mixes and upmixes that have been posted so far.

 

[blue.monk]

The box just arrived from Amazon UK. Very attractive package. I'm first listening to the Spectral Mornings DVD. Sounds good!! I've always loved that long guitar-led coda section on "Every Day". Looking forward to see what SW did with "Clocks" coming up...

 

[rtbluray]

My box also arrived from Amazon UK today (along with the Blu-Rays of "Octopus" and "Fragile" from Burning Shed, but more on those tomorrow!)
In the meantime, I want to point out another fact about the DVDs in this set that has me absolutely disgusted.
The amount of used data on each DVD only ranges from around 1.8 GB (for the upmixes) to 2.7 GB (for the discrete mixes)

Sometimes, a valid excuse for a release being only DVD-V is that there is not enough room to add the high-resolution surround content to the disc, but that simply is not the case for these DVDs. Not only that, but two albums could have easily fit on a single DVD, bringing down manufacturing costs and potentially bringing down the overall price of this set.

Oh how I wish things would have turned out differently for this set...

 

[wavelength]

My box also arrived from Amazon UK today (along with the Blu-Rays of "Octopus" and "Fragile" from Burning Shed, but more on those tomorrow!)
In the meantime, I want to point out another fact about the DVDs in this set that has me absolutely disgusted.
The amount of used data on each DVD only ranges from around 1.8 GB (for the upmixes) to 2.7 GB (for the discrete mixes)

Sometimes, a valid excuse for a release being only DVD-V is that there is not enough room to add the high-resolution surround content to the disc, but that simply is not the case for these DVDs. Not only that, but two albums could have easily fit on a single DVD, bringing down manufacturing costs and potentially bringing down the overall price of this set.

Oh how I wish things would have turned out differently for this set...

Here's hoping that you, Ryan, someday get your foot in the industry door. I like the way you think.

 

[rtbluray]

Here's hoping that you, Ryan, someday get your foot in the industry door. I like the way you think.

Thanks for the encouragement, wavelength.
If I had my way for this release, I would have NOT hired Ray Shulman to be the authoring engineer for this particular release. Now I have nothing against Ray's authoring work, and a lot of it is really quite good (especially when he authors Blu-Ray discs), but these should have been authored as DVD-A/V discs due to the fact that they were not fighting space requirements in this instance.
I also would have included the original stereo mixes for all four albums in high-resolution on the DVDs as well, something that could have easily been done regardless of the choice between DVD-A/V and just DVD-V.
Finally, if these had to be DVD-V, then I would have made sure that the correct logo was utilized on the discs themselves. The way they are now, they decided to kick us in the ass after slapping us across the face.

The ONLY good decision made where this release was concerned was the decision to have Steven Wilson remix "Please Don't Touch" and "Spectral Mornings". Other than that, they have completely blow every given opportunity to make this release all it could have been.

 

[rtbluray]

Someone else on the Genesis Turn It On Again forum also has the right idea about how paradoxical the CD and DVD layout truly is:

I also find it funny that they are so economic with cd space squeezing the 6 albums onto 4 discs but than each of the 4 gets their own dvd. I am not a expert on dvd capacity but I am reasonably sure they could have fit more than 40 minutes or so of audio per dvd, why not do two albums per dvd and save some space, and cost.

 

[rtbluray]

I still haven't had the proper time yet to do a thorough listen-through of any of the DVDs in this set (mostly because I have preoccupied myself listening to "Fragile", "Octopus", and "1+") but when I gave myself a sneak-peak through these DVDs, another very big shortcoming was made readily apparent to me.

When we all first found out that the DVDs in this set were not going to be DVD-A/V discs and instead simply DVD-V discs authored by Ray Shulman, I was hoping that we would get some kind of neat visual slideshow like we had on the DVDs of "Minstrel in the Gallery", "WarChild", and other Jethro Tull releases.

Instead, all we have is this, a single still of the album cover, like the examples listed below:





Another missed opportunity to turn lemons (DVD-V) into (at least a weak) lemonade.
Most people seemed to be preoccupied with the disappointments of "1+", but I still think overall this is a weaker release, especially given the fact that it costs twice as much as even the most expensive version of "1+"

 

[rtbluray]

I just had my first through-listen to the upmix of "Defector", and here's how I would break down a 10-point vote for this disc:

Content (Music): 3/3 (Like the first three Hackett solo albums, it's very strong, with the only dud being the final song on the album.)
Mix: 1/3 (Only a few times did there appear to be discrete moments, much less than other upmixes I have heard from the likes of King Crimson and Gentle Giant)
Fidelity: 1/3 (This really surprised me, but it felt like I was listening to a low bit-rate mp3 a lot of the time. Who knows what the actual source was for this upmix, but I'm coming away very less than impressed.)
High-Res Disc: 0/1 (This speaks for itself…)

I have not had a thorough listen-through yet for the upmix of "Voyage of the Acolyte", but if it's just as bad as this one sounded, then I rest my case that they should not have ever bothered upmixing these albums. My advice at least for "Defector" would be to stick to a stereo CD as it doesn't get any better than that as of now.

 

[rtbluray]

If my last few posts seem pretty dour concerning this release, there's a little bit of a silver lining concerning the upmixes, which is that I have just finished my first full through-listen to "Voyage of the Acolyte", and to my ears, this upmix overall is more successful than "Defector" is. I would break down the vote this way:

Content (Music): 3/3 (Though I would have preferred if they had just used the album cut of "Shadow of the Hierophant" as the extended version is just too damn long, IMO)
Mix: 1/3 (This album does upmix better than "Defector" does)
Fidelity: 2/3 (For some reason, this upmix appears to have a greater fidelity than "Defector" does, which is surprising given that I always felt "Defector" was a better recorded album, or at least it is in stereo)
High-Res Disc: 0/1 (Speaks for itself)

Now, I'm finally moving on to do full listen-throughs of the discrete mixes, starting with "Spectral Mornings"!

 

[César]

As I've received a couple of PMs with this question: I bought my set from amazon uk. Four CDs are slightly scratched, nothing serious but they need to be taken out of the crappy paper containers asap