ELP Emerson Lake & Palmer Cataloge in 5.1 Surround

[cupboy]

Here's one:
TrondheimSolistene - SOUVENIR

Pure Audio Blu-ray
DTS HD MA 192kHz/24 bit 5.1
DTS HD MA 96kHz/24 bit 7.1
Auro-3D 96kHz/24 bit 9.1
LPCM 192kHz/24 bit STEREO
mShuttle: FLAC 192kHz + MP3
Region: ABC - worldwide

Source: http://www.2l.no/pages/album/090.html

I'd like to see LPCM 192kHz/24 bit 5.1 ... that would be impressive.

 

[drphibes]

I would love to be excited about Trilogy. Given that I, too, was burned by this recent bait and switch debacle, I will be spending my shekels elsewhere. I'm glad that this hasn't ruined it for everyone, but I'm done.

 

[ssully]

I'd like to see LPCM 192kHz/24 bit 5.1 ... that would be impressive.

Why? Lossless is lossless. DTS HD-MA and LPCM are both lossless.

And 192/24 is pure marketing specsmanship anyway. All it does is create a grotesquely bloated file size for the audio, with no credible improvement in sound (and at least a theoretical possibility of *degrading* it). It exists for people who think higher numbers must be better.

 

[DennisMoore Jr.]

I would love to be excited about Trilogy. Given that I, too, was burned by this recent bait and switch debacle, I will be spending my shekels elsewhere. I'm glad that this hasn't ruined it for everyone, but I'm done.

Hello my good Doctor,

Do you have the prior Brain Salad Surgery DVD-A?

 

[drphibes]

Hello my good Doctor,

Do you have the prior Brain Salad Surgery DVD-A?

Hello, you lupin-loving brigand!

I do have the prior DVD-A. I obtained a used copy from here or the Steve Hoffman forums. I've been listening to it while weeping over the liner notes and plotting revenge.

 

[ss9001]

hey folks, w/o wading thru 80+ pages of posts , I might be confusing this with Yes, but wasn't this going to be a Wilson mix? if not, I gather this 5.1 version is OK but not great. what's the complaint(s) with this release?

someone referred to "bait & switch" - because this ended up not being Steve Wilson? or something else? since SW did ELP 1 & Tarkus, I wonder why the group members/studio changed to someone else for this. seems like SW would have been the best choice to maintain continuity of style.

bottom line question - is there a 5.1 hi-rez 96/24 mix or is it only lossy? I've had the old DVD-A for years, so if Karn Evil's been butchered, then there's no reason I can see for me to buy this. if the computer "noise" buries the music or the older DVD-A is markedly superior, then I can safely pass on this one & wait for Trilogy, like all of you want. is the KE just mixed differently or is it really FU'd in some way?

thanks for some help and advice on this one.

 

[leevitalone1]

hey folks, w/o wading thru 80+ pages of posts , I might be confusing this with Yes, but wasn't this going to be a Wilson mix? if not, I gather this 5.1 version is OK but not great. what's the complaint(s) with this release?

someone referred to "bait & switch" - because this ended up not being Steve Wilson? or something else? since SW did ELP 1 & Tarkus, I wonder why the group members/studio changed to someone else for this. seems like SW would have been the best choice to maintain continuity of style.

bottom line question - is there a 5.1 hi-rez 96/24 mix or is it only lossy? I've had the old DVD-A for years, so if Karn Evil's been butchered, then there's no reason I can see for me to buy this. if the computer "noise" buries the music or the older DVD-A is markedly superior, then I can safely pass on this one & wait for Trilogy, like all of you want. is the KE just mixed differently or is it really FU'd in some way?

thanks for some help and advice on this one.

They advertised the 3 disc set with a 5.1 version and it was only with the bigger, more expensive set. No SW had no part in the production it was by Jacco, who is the ELP guy.

 

[wavelength]

since SW did ELP 1 & Tarkus, I wonder why the group members/studio changed to someone else for this. seems like SW would have been the best choice to maintain continuity of style.

SW was the one who declined to work on any ELP albums after ELP S/T and Tarkus. He said something to the effect that the process was not enjoyable.

 

[DuncanS]

Why? Lossless is lossless. DTS HD-MA and LPCM are both lossless.

And 192/24 is pure marketing specsmanship anyway. All it does is create a grotesquely bloated file size for the audio, with no credible improvement in sound (and at least a theoretical possibility of *degrading* it). It exists for people who think higher numbers must be better.

In general I'd agree that the improvement in sound quality will be negligible, its like buying ever more expensive equipment you only get small improvements for more money. However, it easier to design filters for both the ADC input and DAC outputs when you have higher sample rates, the roll-off can be more gentle and you don't get such a brick wall effect a lot of people don't like. Plus with higher sample rates you spread the quantisation error across the entire bandwidth. The linearity and hence distortion of the ADCs & DACs is more important, an awful lot of them have 24-bit resolution, but not linearity and can thus introduce distortion. The Beck "Sea Changes" 192KHz/24-bit Blu-ray is one of the best I've heard. IMHO the best results come from well recorded analogue stereo/multi-tracks, which have then been carefully digitised.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

hey folks, w/o wading thru 80+ pages of posts , I might be confusing this with Yes, but wasn't this going to be a Wilson mix? if not, I gather this 5.1 version is OK but not great. what's the complaint(s) with this release?

someone referred to "bait & switch" - because this ended up not being Steve Wilson? or something else? since SW did ELP 1 & Tarkus, I wonder why the group members/studio changed to someone else for this. seems like SW would have been the best choice to maintain continuity of style.

bottom line question - is there a 5.1 hi-rez 96/24 mix or is it only lossy? I've had the old DVD-A for years, so if Karn Evil's been butchered, then there's no reason I can see for me to buy this. if the computer "noise" buries the music or the older DVD-A is markedly superior, then I can safely pass on this one & wait for Trilogy, like all of you want. is the KE just mixed differently or is it really FU'd in some way?

thanks for some help and advice on this one.

Not really sure what you mean with computer noise buries the music, but the disc is very good. I do not have the other surround mix, so cannot compare, but I like the Jakko mix a lot. And if the mix was available in the 3 disc set, more people would be happy with this mix too, I am 100% sure. Also, when the Jakko mix would have been the first and only 5.1 mix of BSS, it would be welcomed with open arms. The beginning of Karn Evel 3 is debatable, whether the bass has been mix correctly or not.

But that will be the case with every mix. On the Tarkus mix by Steven Wilson, some people were complaining about the lack of bass, if I remember correctly.

 

[ssully]

Ignoring the audiophile nonsense ('computer noise' ???) --- where are tester comments on this release? Bob Romano has already chimed in, saying he likes the 5.1 mix. Did any testers have 'issues' with the new BSS surround mix the way several QQ members on this thread appear to?

 

[ssully]

In general I'd agree that the improvement in sound quality will be negligible, its like buying ever more expensive equipment you only get small improvements for more money. However, it easier to design filters for both the ADC input and DAC outputs when you have higher sample rates, the roll-off can be more gentle and you don't get such a brick wall effect a lot of people don't like.

First of all, I challenge people to actually hear the 'brick wall effect' using music, in a blind test. Second, modern players use oversampling DACs. Third, circumventing the 'brick wall effect' is already achieved at around 60kHz. The next available standard smaple rate, 88.2 is plenty. 96kHz is more than plenty. 192 is an absurd waste of file space.

Plus with higher sample rates you spread the quantisation error across the entire bandwidth.

That's more a bit depth issue. And again, I challenge people to identify the quantization error under typical listening conditions, using properly dithered audio . The main credible use for 24 bits is during *production* -- it gives you more headroom during recording, and it allows basically error-free intensive digital processing (the errors remain inaudible). For home delivery formats it's rather pointless. That said, many if not all AVRs , if their digital processing is enabled, convert incoming audio to 24 bits anyway. Many of them upsample too, under such conditions.

The linearity and hence distortion of the ADCs & DACs is more important, an awful lot of them have 24-bit resolution, but not linearity and can thus introduce distortion. The Beck "Sea Changes" 192KHz/24-bit Blu-ray is one of the best I've heard.

And again, is the distortion audioble? As for Sea Change, I have the DVD-A and it sounds fantastic too -- one of the best sounding recordings I can think of. But I don't automatically attribute that to the *format*. Have you compared the Blu-Ray, fairly, to the same mastering offered at lower SR?

IMHO the best results come from well recorded analogue stereo/multi-tracks, which have then been carefully digitised.

Analog actually limits the audio right away, in terms of S/N and thus dynamic range. Fortunately it's still good enough for that not to matter in most cases.

 

[ssully]

But that will be the case with every mix. On the Tarkus mix by Steven Wilson, some people were complaining about the lack of bass, if I remember correctly.

My complaint was not with lack of bass...it was lack of the 'hot', grungy, overdriven sound on the Hammond, that Offord achieved on his mixes/master. It still jars me to hear Tarkus without it, and as a consequences I don't play SW's mixes much. He doesn't seem to have 'got' ELP music the way he gets Tull, Crimson, and Yes.

 

[LizardKing]

I've had my first listen....It's quite a different beast compared to the 2000 WB DVD-A, but I'm glad I've got it. It seems a bit 'Non-integrated" in comparison.. and yes the bass is overblown in part 3...

I prefer the 2000 mix. However (to me) - it's not bad... just not as good as the original.

What worries me is that after this fiasco that we won't get Trilogy. I do hope they sell enough (of the various versions of the 2014 re-issues) for them to continue and do Trilogy in a CD/DVD-A set (with 5.1) .... please please...

I always thought doing BSS before Trilogy was a mistake.
Also why didn't they do the vinyl with a foldout like this :flame. The whole impact of the Giger (R.I.P.) cover is lost:

 

[Robert van Diggele]

My complaint was not with lack of bass...it was lack of the 'hot', grungy, overdriven sound on the Hammond, that Offord achieved on his mixes/master. It still jars me to hear Tarkus without it, and as a consequences I don't play SW's version much. He doesn't seem to have 'got' ELP music the way he gets Tull, Crimson, and Yes.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[AJCxZ0]

For shame, Leadclass Ltd. and Sony and, as usual, bravo to Burning Shed and Marta who provided the images.

With the "SUPER DELUXE" bundle comes the "SUPER SONIC" DVD-A:



With the "DELUXE" bundle comes the "SUPER STEREO" DVD-A:



From my reply to Burning Shed:

Marta,

> As promised, here's what it says on the cover of the deluxe edition:

Thank you. The difference is the conspicuous absence of the surround high resolution mix, which is of course ridiculous for any DVD-A (or even DVD-V) for which a surround mix exists.

Even more ridiculous is having two DVD-As mastered and manufactured just to deprive some folks of the main thing they would want and expect from the product.

Add in the disingenuous marketing up to the product release and now on the product ("SUPER STEREO" vs. "SUPER SONIC" indeed!), this is shameful and insulting to not just the customer, but to the mixer, Jakko.

Burning Shed is of course blameless in this, but it almost goes without saying that my order needs to be cancelled and that I will not be ordering the much higher priced package which contains items I can't even use just to get the one disc with the one track I want and would reasonably expect.

I would be astonished if anyone who ordered this product and became aware of this - what might be called fraud - would not want their order cancelled.

> Feel free to share the images with anyone who is interested in the detailed description of the contents of the DVD-A discs

Thank you.

Your unhappy happy customer,

 

[rtbluray]

Welcome AJCxZ0!

Thanks for the bottom picture confirming the absence of the surround mix.

ELP & Sony's only saving grace will be in releasing the new stereo and 5.1 surround mixes of "Trilogy".
They REALLY need to go back to the 3-disc configuration similar to the Steven Wilson "ELP" and "Tarkus" reissues, with Original Remastered CD, New Stereo Mix/Alternate Takes CD, and 5.1 DVD-A.
If they want to do a bigger set for "Trilogy" as well, cool, but as for now, ELP and Sony can take that 3-disc BSS set and stick it up their collective asses!

 

[cupboy]

I wouldn't blame it on Sony. They only do what the artist demands.

 

[strat54]

I wouldn't blame it on Sony. They only do what the artist demands.

The record company only does what the artist wants? Thank you, best laugh I have had in awhile.

 

[cupboy]

If it was up to Sony they surely wouldn't have put dvd-audio on there.