Possible Reason For Lack of Sony SACD releases

[steelydave]

Just read over on Al Kooper's website:

"The 5.1 SACD Surround Sound versions of SUPER SESSION and CHILD IS FATHER TO THE MAN are completed and ready for release. There are many difficulties in the world of Surround nowadays. The latest is thus:
SONY wants to release a hybrid disc with a:
1) two track remastered stereo version plus a
2) two track remastered SACD stereo version plus
3) a 5.1 SACD Surround Sound version.


Music publishers are balking about this and demanding to be paid three times the normal royalties because of the three “versions” This has put our babies on hold until all this greediness gets sorted out. Its COMPLETELY out of my hands when these masters will be released. When I know for sure, I will post that info up here ASAP. Soooo, no need to ask about that anymore, okay ?"

Obviously this is very similar to the problem with the Beyonce SACD that Thom outlined in his post. Now my thinking is this: from the sounds of things, Sony's decided that they're going to pursue hybrid SACD only, and this is a great sign. If publishers were asking for triple royalties and Sony balked, we'd have seen these discs as single layer multichannel discs. I know I'm being optimistic, but I think the fact that Sony's pursuing hybrid SACDs means that they see them as a long term investment and not a quick cash grab.

The only downside to this is that we surround junkies aren't getting our tiny ration of 1 multichannel SACD every two months from Sony, so we're a bit cranky. Hopefully they'll resolve this problem with the publishing companies and sign some sort of blanket agreement that covers all SACDs...I'm optimistic they will, because both sides have one thing in common - they want to make money.

Dave.

 

[bmoura]

Just read over on Al Kooper's website:

"The 5.1 SACD Surround Sound versions of SUPER SESSION and CHILD IS FATHER TO THE MAN are completed and ready for release. There are many difficulties in the world of Surround nowadays. The latest is thus:
SONY wants to release a hybrid disc with a:
1) two track remastered stereo version plus a
2) two track remastered SACD stereo version plus
3) a 5.1 SACD Surround Sound version.


Music publishers are balking about this and demanding to be paid three times the normal royalties because of the three “versions” This has put our babies on hold until all this greediness gets sorted out. Its COMPLETELY out of my hands when these masters will be released. When I know for sure, I will post that info up here ASAP. Soooo, no need to ask about that anymore, okay ?"

Obviously this is very similar to the problem with the Beyonce SACD that Thom outlined in his post. Now my thinking is this: from the sounds of things, Sony's decided that they're going to pursue hybrid SACD only, and this is a great sign. If publishers were asking for triple royalties and Sony balked, we'd have seen these discs as single layer multichannel discs. I know I'm being optimistic, but I think the fact that Sony's pursuing hybrid SACDs means that they see them as a long term investment and not a quick cash grab.

The only downside to this is that we surround junkies aren't getting our tiny ration of 1 multichannel SACD every two months from Sony, so we're a bit cranky. Hopefully they'll resolve this problem with the publishing companies and sign some sort of blanket agreement that covers all SACDs...I'm optimistic they will, because both sides have one thing in common - they want to make money.

Dave.

You'd hope so. It would certainly be in the publishers interest to be reasonable here. We'll have to watch and see what happens next.

 

[Quadwreck]

It figures it would be something like this.

 

[rusinurbe]

Of course the music publishers are all poor and don't make any money on anything and have such High overheads.

If it takes removing product from the marketplace and removing the music publishers income to make them see sense and wake up to the realities of modern music distribution then so be it !

Very Very annoying though

 

[bizmopeen]

With the re-alignment of the music industry, I would think it would behoove the music publishers not to shoot themselves in the collective feet by holding up the entrenchment of the (to this point) one unhacked format out there that they can make money with. But when the blue suits smell blood or money, we all can see what happens...I just would hate to see this kind of squabling delay any foothold MC can get in the marketplace...

 

[cupboy]

Is this just a Sony problem then? Other labels don't seem to be affected, at least nothing I've read about so far.

 

[bmoura]

Is this just a Sony problem then? Other labels don't seem to be affected, at least nothing I've read about so far.

Well, there are quite a few examples out there of albums that labels would like to issue on SACD but have been unable to due to issues re: requests for advances by artists and the record labels that own the masters.

Check the Audio Fidelity web site over at http://www.audiofidelity.net/ and read some of the comments there by label owner Marshall Blonstein. It's clearly not an issue limited to Sony Music.

 

[Seaclam]

The last time I went down to the store where I bought my equipment, they mentioned that it wouldn't surprise them if Sony switched over to DVD-A as sales for SACD appearently are not as good.

 

[bmoura]

The last time I went down to the store where I bought my equipment, they mentioned that it wouldn't surprise them if Sony switched over to DVD-A as sales for SACD appearently are not as good.

I doubt we'll be seeing that. If you check the sales numbers from Soundscan, the sales numbers from SACD are significantly higher than those for DVD-A titles.

 

[JonUrban]

All sales figures for SACD and DVD-A mean nothing in regard to the opposite format.

The only way to judge if one format would sell more than the other would be if all titles were released in both formats, and hit the stores on the same day.

Anything else is pure speculation.

 

[bmoura]

All sales figures for SACD and DVD-A mean nothing in regard to the opposite format.

The only way to judge if one format would sell more than the other would be if all titles were released in both formats, and hit the stores on the same day.

Anything else is pure speculation.

The Soundscan numbers show the top DVD-A titles at 20,000 units sold at retail and the top SACD titles at over 100,000 units sold at retail.

With that in mind, the earlier quote in this thread from an audio salesman that <i>"The last time I went down to the store where I bought my equipment, they mentioned that it wouldn't surprise them if Sony switched over to DVD-A as sales for SACD appearently are not as good"</i> is based on some faulty information at best.

 

[JonUrban]

Brian: The audio salesman is obviously a moron.

That being said, I stand by my statement. Since the top DVD-A title is not the same title as the top SACD title, there is no way to judge which sold better.

A DVD-A of Abbey Road will outsell an SACD of Jim Nabor's Greatest Hits.
An SACD of PF-WYWH will outsell a DVD-A of Jackson Browne - Naked Ride Home.

Sales figures comparing the two formats are irrelavent, unless both formats release the same title on the same day. Even if that happened, SACD would win because they are CD compatible.

An even truer test would be a single layer SACD of Abbey Road vs a DVD-A of Abbey Road. In this case, the DVD-A would win, as the number of DVD players dwarfs the number of SACD players.

As you can PLAINLY see, this kind of sales nonsense is a total waste of time, typing, and bandwidth.

 

[bmoura]

Brian: The audio salesman is obviously a moron.

Well, I'd just leave it as he was incorrect.

 

[timbre4]

Jon may be feeling the way I am and we've been to this point before.

The frustration is found within statistics like raw Soundscan numbers for the two hi-rez disc formats. The "units" may be as reported, but the true measure of SACD is the percentage of people *knowingly* buying them as SACDs, not stereo CD upgrades.

Just my $.02 while I wait for some new releases.

 

[bmoura]

Jon may be feeling the way I am and we've been to this point before.

The frustration is found within statistics like raw Soundscan numbers for the two hi-rez disc formats. The "units" may be as reported, but the true measure of SACD is the percentage of people *knowingly* buying them as SACDs, not stereo CD upgrades.

Just my $.02 while I wait for some new releases.

I think everyone would like to see more hi rez releases from Sony Music and Warner Music in the U.S. market.

In the meantime, overall SACD release activity this year has stepped up quite a bit from the same time last year, bringing us to over 2,000 SACD titles now available worldwide. The growth has been particularly noticeable in the classical, jazz and audiophile markets which have been at the core of the SACD releases from pretty much the start of the format.

As for music fans "knowingly" buying SACDs, the same is true about DVD-As. The recent RIAA phone survey shows that consumers say they buy more DVD Audio discs than DVD Video discs! I think we all know that's not the case.

At the end of the day, I'm more interested in seeing more hi rez audio releases than worrying about what Sony Music and Warner Music may or may not be doing at the moment.

And I must say that Universal, Telarc and some of the other labels are doing a pretty nice job of delivering some fine hi rez titles. I'd suggest we give them our support by picking up some of these new hi rez titles so the releases continue.

Who knows, that might even inspire (if that's the right term) Sony Music and Warner Music to pick up the pace of their hi rez releases. In the interim, I'll buy from the labels putting out new hi rez product - regardless of which label(s) they are!

 

[JonUrban]

I think all camps need to get the publisher thing resolved, and fast. Then, hopefully, the floodgates will open and more product in BOTH formats will free flow again.

It sure would be nice to have to decide what titles to buy because there are so many to choose from!

 

[bmoura]

I think all camps need to get the publisher thing resolved, and fast. Then, hopefully, the floodgates will open and more product in BOTH formats will free flow again.

It sure would be nice to have to decide what titles to buy because there are so many to choose from!

Well, there's the publisher issue. And there's also the question of artist advances as well. In some cases, the requested advances are so high that a hi rez reissue doesn't pencil out for the label.

If you've watched some of the discussions over on the Audio Fidelity web site at http://www.audiofidelity.net/ that's killed some potential SACD reissue plans as well.

 

[JonUrban]

You know what kills me? I can buy a music DVD with a stereo track, a DTS track, a Dolby Digital track, and maybe a foriegn language track, all for $17.

WTF is the difference? Where are the artists and the publishers on that one?? HUH??

 

[timbre4]

RIAA doing phone surveys? Scary if correct, but that's gotta be a small sample of input and anything RIAA does is pretty suspect anymore.

I do hope the publishing impasse resolves quickly, if that is indeed the only holdup.

Did Dual Disc offically die? I've heard nothing on that front...

off topic: The Nektar RTF SACD is very nice given the source material

 

[bmoura]

RIAA doing phone surveys? Scary if correct, but that's gotta be a small sample of input and anything RIAA does is pretty suspect anymore.

I do hope the publishing impasse resolves quickly, if that is indeed the only holdup.

Did Dual Disc offically die? I've heard nothing on that front...

off topic: The Nektar RTF SACD is very nice given the source material

The RIAA hires firms to do both phone surveys and shipment surveys. (I don't think they ask if you host MP3s on your hard disk during the former!)

There were some serious compatibility problems with the DualDisc - primarily on the CD layer. One of the factories that makes the competing DVD Plus format says the DualDisc format has bit the dust. Time will tell if that is indeed the case. If not, they do have some compatibility issues to iron out.

Which Nektar SACD is that? The one that uses the '70s Quad mix? Or the one that has the new 5.1 Surround mix?