Holy Cow Oppo BDP-103

[ssully]

We will never agree, You obviously haven't listened to what I've been saying. I've had (and still have) many players and none sounded bad. None really sounded much different than the other based on my subjective listening experience. I didn't think that this player would be any different. I was not biased in my expectations at all. When I first listened I was blown away, how can that be?

I read what your wrote. And I rated your evidence properly.

How can it be that you were 'blown away' by your new player? That's what my last post was about, were you listening? OK, let me run through it again:

Because it's a different player, for one. Have you listened to what I've been saying about expectation bias not necessarily being *conscious*, and about blind comparison?
Because it has a slightly louder analog output, for two. Have you listened to what I've been saying about level matching?
Because there is some user setting in the player that is different from your others, for three. Have you listened to what I've been saying about comparing apples to apples?

There is something magical about this machine, that is why I started this thread. Scientifically I want to know why. Please don't dismiss the fact that it just does sound better. Maybe it's just a better analog output I don't know.

If you really want to know why *scientifically*, I have already told you how to approach that. But you aren't listening.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

We will never agree, You obviously haven't listened to what I've been saying. I've had (and still have) many players and none sounded bad. None really sounded much different than the other based on my subjective listening experience. I didn't think that this player would be any different. I was not biased in my expectations at all. When I first listened I was blown away, how can that be?
There is something magical about this machine, that is why I started this thread. Scientifically I want to know why. Please don't dismiss the fact that it just does sound better. Maybe it's just a better analog output I don't know.

My set up is quite a bit like yours. My Oppo's HDMI is for video only & goes straight to input #1 on my Panny projector. The HDMI from my PC goes straight to input #2 on the projector. Audio from the Oppo is a choice between analog out or SPDIF & I use them both. The Oppo I use for high res movie & music audio & the analog outs go to a Zektor & then to the analog inputs on my Anthem AVM 30. This is a unit a bit to old to handle the newer high res movie/music formats but the Oppo does that just fine. Of course also SACD/DVD-A is handled by the Oppo. Analog inputs on the Anthem have digitaly controled analog balance/level only. No re-digitization or bass/treble either. That's usually not a problem as I've worked hard over the years for an acurate system that doesn't need EQ. But sometimes a recording itself is a bit boomy, or thin & shrill so then I send it via SPDIF where I can use the bass/treble on the anthem.

As LMQ said:

So, if you think the 103 is the cats meow, a 105 or a 205 should surely send you off into Nirvana.

Indeed I think he's hit the nail on the head. Keep the 103 for upstairs use. Find a 105 for your man cave! Speaking of which, I just don't remember, have you ever posted pics of your set up in "Show Us Your Gear" thread or elsewhere?

 

[Nyad]

Alas, by the time it gets to the bottom of the planet and NZ Customs/Government's palms have been well-greased, it ends up being in the thousands. I could get one new here for a couple of grand but I think I'll just stick with the ol' Sony for the time being. I got some steering work on a 40 year old Ford that's got my attention at the moment!

Keep searching Trade Me, I picked up an Oppo 103 near mint boxed for $450 here

 

[par4ken]

And if you feel it sounds better than the rest, that's your business.

It does!

 

[par4ken]

My set up is quite a bit like yours. My Oppo's HDMI is for video only & goes straight to input #1 on my Panny projector. The HDMI from my PC goes straight to input #2 on the projector. Audio from the Oppo is a choice between analog out or SPDIF & I use them both. The Oppo I use for high res movie & music audio & the analog outs go to a Zektor & then to the analog inputs on my Anthem AVM 30. This is a unit a bit to old to handle the newer high res movie/music formats but the Oppo does that just fine. Of course also SACD/DVD-A is handled by the Oppo. Analog inputs on the Anthem have digitaly controled analog balance/level only. No re-digitization or bass/treble either. That's usually not a problem as I've worked hard over the years for an acurate system that doesn't need EQ. But sometimes a recording itself is a bit boomy, or thin & shrill so then I send it via SPDIF where I can use the bass/treble on the anthem.

As LMQ said:


Indeed I think he's hit the nail on the head. Keep the 103 for upstairs use. Find a 105 for your man cave! Speaking of which, I just don't remember, have you ever posted pics of your set up in "Show Us Your Gear" thread or elsewhere?

Eventually I'll get around to posting pictures, in particular my wall of tubes.

Higher end Oppo's might indeed sound better yet. I didn't purchase the Oppo for better sound simply as a way to reduce a bit of clutter. I wasn't pre biased towards Oppo, my other Oppo (DVD player) is far from my favourite unit.

Last night through the 103 I listened to Billie Myers "Growing Pains" DTS CD is sounded great but for a rather electronic digital sounding top end, similar to the sound of the early CD players. DTS can only sound so good I guess. I also listened to Yes "Close To The Edge", Blu-ray and found the SW surround mix almost too smooth, too clean. I revisited the Roxy Music DVD (not a DVD-A disc!) I still dislike the surround version of that, on the first track "Remake Remodel" the sax and syth should blast away being at least as loud as the vocals, more like the stereo version but instead they are barely audible. I think I'll offer it for sale, not sure what they are going for, I'll have to check, feel free to PM any offers.

 

[par4ken]

Have you listened to what I've been saying about level matching?

Yes what about it? Matching to what? I set the volume level to a comfortable setting. I'm not A-B ing players. My home built equipment can handle a wide range of input levels without distorting, I even included a clipping indicator just to be sure. I'm sure all players sound the same on a system using HDMI, with decoding done in the amplifier, I don't do that.

 

[par4ken]

If you really want to know why *scientifically*, I have already told you how to approach that. But you aren't listening.

You aren't listening, it's a fact that the player sounds much better than any of my other players and better than rips played over the computer. The biggest difference so far seem to be with SACD's.
Now the scientific part is there must be something different about the 103 compared to the others, better D/A conversion, better analog section not converting DSD to PCM (or does it covert? the player says SACD PCM). I was hoping that someone could provide an explanation.

 

[ssully]

Yes what about it? Matching to what? I set the volume level to a comfortable setting. I'm not A-B ing players. My home built equipment can handle a wide range of input levels without distorting, I even included a clipping indicator just to be sure. I'm sure all players sound the same on a system using HDMI, with decoding done in the amplifier, I don't do that.

You claim you aren't A/B-ing players, yet you report (sighted) sonic distinctions between them, which means in your mind you are.....A/Bing them.

Level matching means matching each RCA (since you are using analog) output of player A to within 0.1 dB of the same output on Player B, playing the same signal. And then comparing them blind. And either using the same downstream inputs, or if not, making sure *their* signal paths are level matched too.

Establishing that two players sound different, much less knowing *why*, takes more than what you have done.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I was not biased in my expectations at all.

Only your conscious ones, to be sure.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

You aren't listening, it's a fact that the player sounds much better than any of my other players and better than rips played over the computer. The biggest difference so far seem to be with SACD's.
Now the scientific part is there must be something different about the 103 compared to the others, better D/A conversion, better analog section not converting DSD to PCM (or does it covert? the player says SACD PCM). I was hoping that someone could provide an explanation.

So how are you decoding rips from the computer?

Dosen't the DSD convert to PCM only if you tell it to? If using analog outs you shouldan't enable that option. Then the Oppo will convert DSD to analog directly inside the player.

 

[ssully]

You aren't listening, it's a fact that the player sounds much better than any of my other players and better than rips played over the computer. The biggest difference so far seem to be with SACD's.

It's a fact that you perceive it that way. Not the same thing as the audible difference being real. Things can 'sound much better' that in fact sound the same. 'Phantom switch' experiments are fascinating.

Now the scientific part is there must be something different about the 103 compared to the others, better D/A conversion, better analog section not converting DSD to PCM (or does it covert? the player says SACD PCM). I was hoping that someone could provide an explanation.

The scientific part would first involve recognizing that there are other salient explanations aside from:
'better' D/A,
'better' analog out (unless you think a simple level difference means 'better')
DSD-->PCM conversion vs pure DSD.... (if an output indicator says 'SACD PCM' it would suggest either that DSD--->PCM conversion is happening, or that the player is accessing the PCM layer of the SACD.)

The salient explanations I refer to are not only acknowledged by science, they are the very reason why any reputable scientific publication requires blind, level matched methodology in such reports.

You have assumed what still needs to be proved: that they even truly, fundamentally sound different. You have skipped a step.

 

[par4ken]

So how are you decoding rips from the computer?

Dosen't the DSD convert to PCM only if you tell it to? If using analog outs you shouldan't enable that option. Then the Oppo will convert DSD to analog directly inside the player.

While the few SACD rips I've done so far are .dsf most of my rips are flac I play them back through Foobar, looks like I should be able to stream them through the 103. Still a new toy, I haven't realised all it's features yet.

I checked the setting and because SACD output was set to Auto it switches to PCM with the TV on, so I've now set it to DSD. I'm still thinking maybe the Oppo sounds better due to not converting to PCM, my initial listening was with the TV off.

 

[atlantasteve]

The Oppo I use for high res movie & music audio & the analog outs go to a Zektor & then to the analog inputs on my Anthem AVM 30

I have an Anthem AVM60 but it doesn't have analog inputs. Is there any way to use the OPPO analog outputs for MCH audio?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Still a new toy, I haven't realised all it's features yet.

If you don't already have it for your older Oppo, just a reminder Oppo has a remote control app for Android & iPhone. A little quirky but comes in very handy for me, to be able to select/play music from HDD & disc with out having to turn my projector on.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

I have an Anthem AVM60 but it doesn't have analog inputs. Is there any way to use the OPPO analog outputs for MCH audio?

Nice, nice choice there Steve. I respect Anthem products a lot.

But of course legacy stuff evenyually get dropped on newer equipment. It's an HDMI world out there for HT gear & the analog audio inputs are going away. I do see the AVM 60 at least has 5 stereo analog inputs. But not a single 5.1 input.

Your situation has been a hot topic in regards to the Surround Master which is analog in, analog out. It is fairly easy to find 2 ch stereo HDMI to analog output convertors . But something like this only helps get an HDMI signal into the SM (or similar). Convertors that take 5.1 analog to HDMI is what you need to get the decoded analog output for your Oppo back in to your receiver. I have looked extensively for those & I have never been able to find them. Sorry.

 

[mandrix]

This.

Just a few comments.

What the above posters are trying to say is that expectation bias isn't always logical, and is sometimes counter intuitive. Saying you weren't biased may be a subconscious clue that bias actually exists. Whether you think you are biased or not is really of no consequence. When you spend money on audio gear, regardless of what you think you feel, subconsciously you are expecting some improvement for the outlay. And your mind will surely work to justify the outlay.

Sometimes when I listen to something new I am also initially "blown away". It wears off and reality sets in, sooner rather than later, especially when you try to match levels and listen critically. One trick I try to use is to deliberately set what is thought to be the more inferior component to a slightly louder volume setting. Then if I compare the two components and the inferior unit still sounds worse, there is a good chance the difference may be real and its time time to investigate further.

Blown away is such a badly overused term, and it really means nothing. Is my "blown away" the same as yours? Or is mine a bigger bang? Too often for me, being blown away is due to my mood on that day.

If you hear a difference try to get specific about what it is you are hearing... very specific. That process in itself often reveals the truth. I've used this tactic with several friends who were convinced that vinyl was completely superior to digital, hands down. When pushed to describe the biggest difference and then point it out by switching sources in real time, they cant. All of a sudden they cant hear the difference anymore. But in spite of this, they still leave convinced that vinyl is all that and a bag of chips. Such is the power of the human mind. After all, you do get snap-crackle-pop and a large version of the album art. But if they are happy, why rock their boat?

There is nothing magical about the machine. Now, those wooden disks and high end power cords... those are magical.

Oppo always recommended a 103 for use in systems where the HDMI output is used, allowing the DA conversion to be done outside of the player. For instances where the player was used to decode, the 105/205 was the recommendation due to the additional focus on the DAC performance. So, if you think the 103 is the cats meow, a 105 or a 205 should surely send you off into Nirvana.

For my part, my days of playing physical disks are long gone. No more investment in physical disk players for me. I buy the disks, rip them immediately, store them, and never play them again. If i could get MC downloads, I would go that route in a second. The only exception is a the rare playing of a video disk to watch, and with the emergence of all the on line streaming services, I don't think I've done that in several years either.

But for the record, your Oppo seems like a great machine, especially for the price you paid. And the icing on the cake is, it can rip SACDs. Enjoy. And if you feel it sounds better than the rest, that's your business.

First paragraph. I'm absolutely with you here. Our brains always want a story, even if we have to invent it for ourselves...and what could be more true from music oriented folks spending their hard earned cash toward expected rewards than a new piece of gear? We saw it, we made a reason to want it, and by George we know it's gonna deliver. Just the way the brain works, and also why some orators are able to stick ideas in the head with a good story...whether true or not. The end result is the end result, neither good or bad until you make it so.

 

[timbre4]

FWIW - Love my BDP-103; love my BDP-93; kinda love* the Sony X800 too. (* doesn't play burned burned DVD-A but handles everything else) Happy with the gear, will keep and enjoy forever. All I need now is my 2nd Molson Golden. Enjoy.

HOLY Cow - you're welcome

 

[Guy Robinson]

I use the 2 x HDMI outs on my 103 and let my receiver do the decoding. At this point in time with low physical disc usage, the 103 handles multiple hard drives with hundreds of folders and various partitions with no issues at all. Other players I have done this with, including my Sony X800 have limits as to the numbers of partitions and folders and drives. Currently I have 6 x 4TB = 24TB drives attached to it. I have run into no constraints with this on the 103. And I know others think this is a non-elegant solution and would like cross-referencing and little icons on all the folders/files (ie a nice GUI) but I have no issue with that. Keeping track of where everything is keeps my 67 year old brain active.

I should also note that at one point I had 8 x 4TB = 32TB's of drive attached to it also with no issue.

 

[quicksrt]

I had a Oppo 103 and found that CD or 16/44.1 audio out of it was lacking. Kind of coarse sounding in fact. SACD and DVD-A sounded fine enough. I then got a 105 and the coarseness I heard with the 103 was gone.

The 105 has provided nicer smoother sound out of its analog outputs.

I also bought an outboard DAC (Topping D50 - I think it is) to see if 16/44 would be improved yet even more. I feel the sound is just a tad brighter and seems more focused but I’m not sure about how much better. I need to try out various setting as it has 5 modes. I might try taking it less bright if I can retain the focus. I think it’s nicer than the Oppo 105 for stereo playback from computer JRiver rig.

 

[par4ken]

I use the 2 x HDMI outs on my 103 and let my receiver do the decoding. At this point in time with low physical disc usage, the 103 handles multiple hard drives with hundreds of folders and various partitions with no issues at all. Other players I have done this with, including my Sony X800 have limits as to the numbers of partitions and folders and drives. Currently I have 6 x 4TB = 24TB drives attached to it. I have run into no constraints with this on the 103. And I know others think this is a non-elegant solution and would like cross-referencing and little icons on all the folders/files (ie a nice GUI) but I have no issue with that. Keeping track of where everything is keeps my 67 year old brain active.

I should also note that at one point I had 8 x 4TB = 32TB's of drive attached to it also with no issue.

I now have the streaming set up but can only see the folders on the C drive, I have several other drives that hold the bulk of the music files and they are what I want to share. File sharing seamed much easier with Windows 7 than with Windows 10. I've tried setting permission for the drive and folders to be shared but don't see them in the Oppo.