New John Lennon collection, remixed in 5.1 surround & Dolby Atmos out in October!

[perzon57]

The Doors,Riders of the Storm:2 different sounding Quads(different mixes?),a 5.1 mix an latest the Tidal Atmos mix.

 

[François]

And In the Court of the Crimson King that has two 5.1 mixes and a forthcoming Atmos mix (soon!)

 

[kokishin]

I did some debugging today on my Atmos issue where I'm getting Atmos content from only my Dolby Atmos enabled (upfiring) rear speakers even though I have a 5.1.4 configuration. No content from the front (upfiring) speakers.

I changed my Denon 6200 from the normal Dolby Atmos enabled setup to TF+TR. I was forced to run Audyssey again but I only ran the minimum 3/8 passes and then I opted to complete.

I now have Atmos content coming from both my front and rear Atmos speakers!

[Cue up Rod Serling and the Twilight Zone theme].

I'm going to listen for a while with this (improper) but working Atmos setup. Later I'll switch back to the proper configuration and see if I lose my front Atmos (upfiring) speakers again.

Did some further debugging today (Sunday).

Using the Amp Assign function on my Denon 6200, I tried all offered combinations for four Atmos speakers, i.e., TF+TR, TF+RH, FH+TR, FH+RH, FH+TM, TM+RH, and Dolby Atmos enabled (DAE) upfiring (my normal config). I did not try the combo of Atmos elevated and upfiring such as TF+DAE Rear.

The ONLY combo that produced sound from all four Atmos speakers was TF+TR. DAE F+DAE R (my normal config) still only gave me Atmos content out of the rear Atmos speakers. The other combos did not produce any content from the Atmos speakers.

When configured for DAE F+DAE R (my normal config), the 2016 Dolby Atmos Demo Disc 5.1.4 test tones confirm that ALL my speakers work correctly. All I can conclude is there is something unique about the Atmos mapping on "Gimme Some Truth" that affects my 6200 in an odd way.

I plan to continue using TF+TR going forward even though it's not the proper config for my setup.

The only other thing I can think of to try is applying the reset sequence to my 6200 and see if that jars the Atmos decoder into working properly. I'll save that effort for another day.

 

[sjcorne]

The Doors,Riders of the Storm:2 different sounding Quads(different mixes?)

There's only one quad mix of "Riders On The Storm", but the Best Of The Doors quad compilation album it's from has been released several times over (1973 CD-4 LP/Q8/QR, 2015 Audio Fidelity SACD, 2017 Rhino Blu-Ray).

 

[olgitnorm]

Did some further debugging today (Sunday).

Using the Amp Assign function on my Denon 6200, I tried all offered combinations for four Atmos speakers, i.e., TF+TR, TF+RH, FH+TR, FH+RH, FH+TM, TM+RH, and Dolby Atmos enabled (DAE) upfiring (my normal config). I did not try the combo of Atmos elevated and upfiring such as TF+DAE Rear.

The ONLY combo that produced sound from all four Atmos speakers was TF+TR. DAE F+DAE R (my normal config) still only gave me Atmos content out of the rear Atmos speakers. The other combos did not produce any content from the Atmos speakers.

When configured for DAE F+DAE R (my normal config), the 2016 Dolby Atmos Demo Disc 5.1.4 test tones confirm that ALL my speakers work correctly. All I can conclude is there is something unique about the Atmos mapping on "Gimme Some Truth" that affects my 6200 in an odd way.

I plan to continue using TF+TR going forward even though it's not the proper config for my setup.

The only other thing I can think of to try is applying the reset sequence to my 6200 and see if that jars the Atmos decoder into working properly. I'll save that effort for another day.

Seriously we shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to listen to a Dolby Atmos offering. Like many I have a 5.1.2 setup with the 2 being front upfiring Dolby enabled speakers which works with every Atmos film/ music I have played until now....basically this release is flawed and we shouldn’t accept it, especially at this price.

 

[humprof]

Seriously we shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to listen to a Dolby Atmos offering. Like many I have a 5.1.2 setup with the 2 being front upfiring Dolby enabled speakers which works with every Atmos film/ music I have played until now....basically this release is flawed and we shouldn’t accept it, especially at this price.

Again: this is weird, because the streaming version on Tidal plays just fine over my 5.1.2 system.

That said: I have overheads, not upfiring fronts. But as long as the channel assignments are configured properly in our AVRs, that shouldn't make a difference, should it?

I also don't have the Blu-Ray version (yet). Could it be a mastering issue?

 

[perzon57]

There's only one quad mix of "Riders On The Storm", but the Best Of The Doors quad compilation album it's from has been released several times over (1973 CD-4 LP/Q8/QR, 2015 Audio Fidelity SACD, 2017 Rhino Blu-Ray).

I have both the SACD and BD of the Quad,but they don't sound the same on this song.I don't think it's only a difference in the mastering?

 

[JonUrban]

I have both the SACD and BD of the Quad,but they don't sound the same on this song.I don't think it's only a difference in the mastering?

Foraging Rhino confirmed that the AF SACD and the Rhino BluRay came from different masters, but the mix allegedly is the same. It would be very odd if they were 2 different mixes because there would be no financial incentive for the label to remix something that would be only marketable to a very small target audience.

The difference you'll be hearing is in the mastering and the source tape

 

[GOS]

Wow, so Amazon will take it back even if you open it?

I didn't take any chances. Mine is boxed up and going back to Bull Moose. They are already in process of sending another.

 

[perzon57]

Foraging Rhino confirmed that the AF SACD and the Rhino BluRay came from different masters, but the mix allegedly is the same. It would be very odd if they were 2 different mixes because there would be no financial incentive for the label to remix something that would be only marketable to a very small target audience.

The difference you'll be hearing is in the mastering and the source tape

I'm not sure.There is a special effect on Riders on the BD that is not present on the SACD.It's only on Riders....

 

[kokishin]

Seriously we shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to listen to a Dolby Atmos offering. Like many I have a 5.1.2 setup with the 2 being front upfiring Dolby enabled speakers which works with every Atmos film/ music I have played until now....basically this release is flawed and we shouldn’t accept it, especially at this price.

Just so I am clear, are you not getting Atmos content from your front DAE upfiring speakers?

 

[olgitnorm]

Correct but if I tell my AVR [Marantz7015] they are front height speakers then I do get content from them, although how accurate this portrays the sound is questionable. Other members on here who have 5.1.4 with the 4 being front and back upfiiring speakers only get content from the back two upfiring speakers and nothing from the front two.

 

[ssully]

NOTE: I erroneously posted the above posts in the poll thread, so I moved them here where I originally intended them to go. Anyway,

Hopefully someone can confirm what I found. I guess how it sounds will depend on the system. The DTS files sounded great to me, but when I listen to the ripped Dolby and turn them up, they do seem to sound better. But again, my hearing is nothing to be used for critical listening.

So you younger guys who can rip this stuff and check this out, PLEASE, report back what you see and most importantly what you hear. Nobody cares what the wave forms look like if the music sounds great. That's the bottom line.

So listen and report back. THANKS

I suspect this is just a simple overall level difference. The front L/R of the DTS are peaking at 0dbFS or very close to it. The DD, not. So, save both as PCM and reopen the DD PCM in an editor; normalize the front L/R of the Dolby to 0dBFS , and let the other channel levels rise too, based on that ; save and compare to DTS blind and as waveforms, and they may be indistinguishable audibly , as well as visually as waveforms. However I have sometimes seen strange LFE differences in some DTS vs DD that were not due to levels...they were due to different LFE frequency contents.

btw, to me, 'Karma' looks like it got the same mastering as the others. They have all been compressed/limited. I wouldn't say to a 'brickwalled' degree ...I reserve that for things like Californication. I think the low magnification here makes it looks more brickey than it is.

 

[himey]

Correct but if I tell my AVR [Marantz7015] they are front height speakers then I do get content from them, although how accurate this portrays the sound is questionable. Other members on here who have 5.1.4 with the 4 being front and back upfiiring speakers only get content from the back two upfiring speakers and nothing from the front two.

It is all processed sounds for 3D audio, although it does use metadata to place them. I don't think the "accuracy" will be to much different. Compared to discrete channels, 3D channels aren't an exact science. Also, most people are redirecting the bass which also lessens accuracy.

 

[kokishin]

Correct but if I tell my AVR [Marantz7015] they are front height speakers then I do get content from them, although how accurate this portrays the sound is questionable. Other members on here who have 5.1.4 with the 4 being front and back upfiiring speakers only get content from the back two upfiring speakers and nothing from the front two.

Yep. I reported here early on that with my Denon 6200 5.1.4 DAE speaker system, I'm only getting content from the rear DAE speakers. I switched to TF+TR and was able to get Atmos content from all four DAE speakers.

I haven't written this up yet, but I reset my 6200 today and now I can not get Atmos content from the TF+TR setting anymore. Now I'm only getting Atmos content from my DAE Rear only with the 6200 set to DAE F+DAE R. Very frustrating.

 

[JonUrban]

I suspect this is just a simple overall level difference. The front L/R of the DTS are peaking at 0dbFS or very close to it. The DD, not. So, save both as PCM and reopen the DD PCM in an editor; normalize the front L/R of the Dolby to 0dBFS , and let the other channel levels rise too, based on that ; save and compare to DTS blind and as waveforms, and they may be indistinguishable audibly , as well as visually as waveforms. However I have sometimes seen strange LFE differences in some DTS vs DD that were not due to levels...they were due to different LFE frequency contents.

btw, to me, 'Karma' looks like it got the same mastering as the others. They have all been compressed/limited. I wouldn't say to a 'brickwalled' degree ...I reserve that for things like Californication. I think the low magnification here makes it looks more brickey than it is.

I think you are correct ssully. Today when I was messing around with the files, I boosted the Dolby 51 channels by 8 dB in volume only, not normalization or any DSP type of loudness, and the wave forms approached the look of the DTS files almost identically. They sounded the same as well, so I am fairly sure that the only difference is, as you say, the volume level. Maybe someone just forgot to run a level boost on the Dolby 51 files.

They are certainly not a different mix or mastering.

 

[JonUrban]

I'm not sure.There is a special effect on Riders on the BD that is not present on the SACD.It's only on Riders....

Maybe. If I ever get around to it I will check it out. I'm done playing on the computer for today.

 

[Monkish]

I would give it 8/10 just for surround activity.

One caveat: while I wouldn’t argue this rating as far as the immersion factor, it’s *maybe* a 6/10 as far as discreteness is concerned, if I’m being generous. So, bear that in mind, depending on what your preferences are in a surround mix.

 

[kokishin]

Did some further debugging today (Sunday).

Using the Amp Assign function on my Denon 6200, I tried all offered combinations for four Atmos speakers, i.e., TF+TR, TF+RH, FH+TR, FH+RH, FH+TM, TM+RH, and Dolby Atmos enabled (DAE) upfiring (my normal config). I did not try the combo of Atmos elevated and upfiring such as TF+DAE Rear.

The ONLY combo that produced sound from all four Atmos speakers was TF+TR. DAE F+DAE R (my normal config) still only gave me Atmos content out of the rear Atmos speakers. The other combos did not produce any content from the Atmos speakers.

When configured for DAE F+DAE R (my normal config), the 2016 Dolby Atmos Demo Disc 5.1.4 test tones confirm that ALL my speakers work correctly. All I can conclude is there is something unique about the Atmos mapping on "Gimme Some Truth" that affects my 6200 in an odd way.

I plan to continue using TF+TR going forward even though it's not the proper config for my setup.

The only other thing I can think of to try is applying the reset sequence to my 6200 and see if that jars the Atmos decoder into working properly. I'll save that effort for another day.

Frustration grows, I reset my Denon 6200. Now I can only get Atmos content from my DAE Rears as before, If I change the 6200 config to TF+TR, I get no Atmos content from the Atmos speakers, whereas before the reset, I got Atmos content from all four Atmos speakers. Also, if I change the config to FH+RH, no Atmos content (same as before).

There seems to be something unusual with the Atmos encoding on "Gimme Some Truth". I've never had any issues with other Atmos music or videos. I just played some Atmos content from Abbey Road and all four upfiring Atmos speakers had content with the 6200 set for DAE F+DAE R (proper config)..

Not sure what to do at this point. I know there are just a few others having similar issues. Given that "Gimme Some Truth" just got released and there hasn't been much of a chance for feedback yet, I'll keep an eye on the situation. I think I'll let Bull Moose know in case there is a future recall.

 

[CINERAMAX]

Nothing Wrong with the 4 tops, the front tops on average are 60% of the volume of the fronts and rears, the rear tops are about 40%, while no booka shade it is a good enjoyable ATMOS mix, a 9, considering I hated the fvcker's music most of my adult life, very high praise indeed.