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More Santana Surround Sound SACD Reissues from Sony Japan?

4-earredwonder

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#1
The inclusion of images representing Abraxas and Caravanserai is logical because the bulk of the music they played on Lotus comes from those albums.


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VERY true, but I'm sure ALL those Santana QUAD masters are safely stored in SONY Japan's vaults waiting to be liberated.....so, we'll see. Accentuate the POSITIVE!:banana:
 

bmoura

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#2
VERY true, but I'm sure ALL those Santana QUAD masters are safely stored in SONY Japan's vaults waiting to be liberated.....so, we'll see. Accentuate the POSITIVE!:banana:
The Santana master tapes are probably available at the Sony Music vaults.
Santana Lotus would be at Sony Music Japan since that album was recorded in Japan.
 

4-earredwonder

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#3
The Santana master tapes are probably available at the Sony Music vaults.
Santana Lotus would be at Sony Music Japan since that album was recorded in Japan.
I'm sure you're right, Brian but with all those disappearing American QUAD remasters either going up in smoke:flame or being tossed in the trash doubtful whether SONY US or Japan would allow the same fate to happen to those ultra valuable Santana QUAD masters.....especially since they've been one of SONY/Columbia's BIGGEST A list providers since the late 60's.
 

fredblue

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I'm sure you're right, Brian but with all those disappearing American QUAD remasters either going up in smoke:flame or being tossed in the trash doubtful whether SONY US or Japan would allow the same fate to happen to those ultra valuable Santana QUAD masters.....especially since they've been one of SONY/Columbia's BIGGEST A list providers since the late 60's.
given all of this, I do wonder how Sony Japan managed to pull off the feat of reissuing the Wired Quad when the Quad master was deemed unusable by (an)other label(s).. a safety copy of the discrete 4-Ch master held in Sony Japan's vaults, potentially? we'll never know perhaps but I'm not sure how helpful to our cause it might be to declare in absolutes about who has what and where and it follows that exactly what various labels in countries outside the U.S. may or may not hold copies of in their archives/vault etc might be up for grabs too.. ah I dunno!? It'll all come out in the wash.
 

4-earredwonder

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#6
To be clear, the issue of lost masters at Universal Music don't affect the masters at Sony Music.
If you recall, Analogue Productions did release a spectacular sounding ELVIS SACD [http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/8..._Essential_Elvis_Volume_2-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD] that was literally tossed in the garbage some years back and thankfully resurrected.

But you're absolutely right: as a rule, SONY has been much more reverential towards their legacy masters [Quad and otherwise] than other labels.
 

fredblue

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#7
If you recall, Analogue Productions did release a spectacular sounding ELVIS SACD [http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/8..._Essential_Elvis_Volume_2-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD] that was literally tossed in the garbage some years back and thankfully resurrected.

But you're absolutely right: as a rule, SONY has been much more reverential towards their legacy masters [Quad and otherwise] than other labels.
to some extent I think maybe it helped with Columbia/Epic and associated labels that there was some kind of continuity from Columbia/Epic/CBS to Sony being under one umbrella as it were?

whereas you could say Universal took on all sorts of disparate labels and catalogues, so a much wider remit for them to hold more comprehensive archives of, possibly?
 

4-earredwonder

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to some extent I think maybe it helped with Columbia/Epic and associated labels that there was some kind of continuity from Columbia/Epic/CBS to Sony being under one umbrella as it were?

whereas you could say Universal took on all sorts of disparate labels and catalogues, so a much wider remit for them to hold more comprehensive archives of, possibly?
Quite true, Adam. It's like owning multiple properties and trying to keep up with maintaining them all without mishaps....I'm juggling three, myself, and it's a real chore, especially in 2017!

BTW, did you pull the trigger yet on LOTUS? You KNOW you WANT IT!
 

bmoura

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#9
If you recall, Analogue Productions did release a spectacular sounding ELVIS SACD [http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/8..._Essential_Elvis_Volume_2-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD] that was literally tossed in the garbage some years back and thankfully resurrected.

But you're absolutely right: as a rule, SONY has been much more reverential towards their legacy masters [Quad and otherwise] than other labels.
Actually the Elvis tape you mention was kept in a box in the garage of the original session Assistant Engineer (Bones Howe).
He later made some $ by providing it to RCA. See Elvis Australia interview with Bones Howe:

"He kept copies of the tapes from Elvis' sessions in a box in his garage for 30 years, selling them back to RCA after the record company lost theirs."
http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/interview-with-bones-howe.shtml
 

bmoura

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#10
given all of this, I do wonder how Sony Japan managed to pull off the feat of reissuing the Wired Quad when the Quad master was deemed unusable by (an)other label(s).. a safety copy of the discrete 4-Ch master held in Sony Japan's vaults, potentially?
Remember that we're talking about tapes that are in some cases over 40 years old. So the initial request from the reissue labels for one album (Wired) vs. the later project by Sony Japan to release all of the Jeff Beck Quad recordings likely resulted in a later vault request for multiple tapes. It's very likely that the additional tapes for Wired were part of the full Jeff Beck Quad request vs. the earlier one that covered Wired only.

Reminds me of a case where Audio Fidelity requested Quad tapes for one quad album and received the tapes for two Quad albums (the requested one and another album on my list). Both of which were of interest to Audio Fidelity.
Resulted in both albums getting reissued on Audio Fidelity Surround SACD after we worked to determine which Quad albums/tapes had been provided. :)
 

fredblue

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#11
Remember that we're talking about tapes that are in some cases over 40 years old. So the initial request from the reissue labels for one album (Wired) vs. the later project by Sony Japan to release all of the Jeff Beck Quad recordings likely resulted in a later vault request for multiple tapes. It's very likely that the additional tapes for Wired were part of the full Jeff Beck Quad request vs. the earlier one that covered Wired only.

Reminds me of a case where Audio Fidelity requested Quad tapes for one quad album and received the tapes for two Quad albums (the requested one and another album on my list). Both of which were of interest to Audio Fidelity.
Resulted in both albums getting reissued on Audio Fidelity Surround SACD after we worked to determine which Quad albums/tapes had been provided. :)
how can there be more than one copy of the Quad master tapes where one is unusable and another is fine? one's a dub (or a safety or a backup or whatever) and another is the true master?
 

quicksrt

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#12
how can there be more than one copy of the Quad master tapes where one is unusable and another is fine? one's a dub (or a safety or a backup or whatever) and another is the true master?
There are cases where an album is mixed twice in order to get two first generation masters. With automatic boards that can recall every fader move on the console, it became easier than one might think. I'm not saying that this is the case here, but it has been done.
 

quicksrt

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#13
Remember that we're talking about tapes that are in some cases over 40 years old. So the initial request from the reissue labels for one album (Wired) vs. the later project by Sony Japan to release all of the Jeff Beck Quad recordings likely resulted in a later vault request for multiple tapes. It's very likely that the additional tapes for Wired were part of the full Jeff Beck Quad request vs. the earlier one that covered Wired only.

Reminds me of a case where Audio Fidelity requested Quad tapes for one quad album and received the tapes for two Quad albums (the requested one and another album on my list). Both of which were of interest to Audio Fidelity.
Resulted in both albums getting reissued on Audio Fidelity Surround SACD after we worked to determine which Quad albums/tapes had been provided. :)
You still do not provide a reason that one company found the (Wired) tapes to be of unacceptable quality or condition and another found them to be just fine.

But on a related note in regards to sending out quad tapes, I recall that AF's request for the 2-chan stereo masters for Grand Funk's "We're an American Band" resulted in the quad master tape be sent over instead. That should have been a sign right there.
 

fizzywiggs41

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#14
Oh I'm sure we can expect additional Quad surprises from Sony Japan 's vault .

That they have Quad masters/copies of Popular Artists, there's no question.
Just knowing that ALL of Jeff Beck's Quad material was available , is very telling indeed.

Time will Tell , and I look forward to what's to be issued in quad ---next.
 

fredblue

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Oh I'm sure we can expect additional Quad surprises from Sony Japan 's vault .

That they have Quad masters/copies of Popular Artists, there's no question.
Just knowing that ALL of Jeff Beck's Quad material was available , is very telling indeed.

Time will Tell , and I look forward to what's to be issued in quad ---next.
an interesting/tantalising possibility is that Sony may hold 4-ch tapes of the Blow By Blow & Wired Quads when neither title was released in Quad in Japan in the 70's.. they may not.. hmm.. whatever the facts of that particular situation I feel Japan generally (not just Sony) holds a number of Quad master tape treasures deemed unusable or lost in the U.S., potentially among them Quads thought lost from A&M (all those Japanese King CD-4 & Q4 reissues of A&M Quads that were matrix only in the States) and others including ABC/Command Quads.. if I were a label such as DV/AF rereleasing Quads I'd definitely explore Japanese leads at some point for some of the supposedly lost Quad masters.
 

fizzywiggs41

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#16
an interesting/tantalising possibility is that Sony may hold 4-ch tapes of the Blow By Blow & Wired Quads when neither title was released in Quad in Japan in the 70's.. they may not.. hmm.. whatever the facts of that particular situation I feel Japan generally (not just Sony) holds a number of Quad master tape treasures deemed unusable or lost in the U.S., potentially among them Quads thought lost from A&M (all those Japanese King CD-4 & Q4 reissues of A&M Quads that were matrix only in the States) and others including ABC/Command Quads.. if I were a label such as DV/AF rereleasing Quads I'd definitely explore Japanese leads at some point for some of the supposedly lost Quad masters.
Are we "certain" that Blow and Wired were not issued in Japan ? I know I don't have a complete Sony Japan Quad listing.
Unlike the rest of the quad World the Japanese Record Companies did continue to support quad releases for at leat 2-3 years longer.
I believe someone in the Quad community had once stated that the reason was Stronger Consumer Regulations .
For certain this was true for CD-4. and therefore JVC . Sony was also very large so it stands to reason---at least as long as CBS USA .



And yes , like you Frederick I would love to get some of the elusive quads, be they prior matrix or discrete disc.
For me , it would be the BTO , and other English speaking acts from the likes of Phillips/Polydor.(Polyglut family), which would and could be all of the UMG hierarchies. (Motown, A&M, MCA, etc).
But hopefully they take an interest , soon.



Sony Japan, well now we know they have tapes :smokin , so perhaps (more than I had originally thought) they could supply Quad BMG artists and with any luck ---more quads soon ,should be nice reality.


Anyways,
It's good news for us knowing that Japan is also a source of Discrete Masters.
 

4-earredwonder

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an interesting/tantalising possibility is that Sony may hold 4-ch tapes of the Blow By Blow & Wired Quads when neither title was released in Quad in Japan in the 70's.. they may not.. hmm.. whatever the facts of that particular situation I feel Japan generally (not just Sony) holds a number of Quad master tape treasures deemed unusable or lost in the U.S., potentially among them Quads thought lost from A&M (all those Japanese King CD-4 & Q4 reissues of A&M Quads that were matrix only in the States) and others including ABC/Command Quads.. if I were a label such as DV/AF rereleasing Quads I'd definitely explore Japanese leads at some point for some of the supposedly lost Quad masters.
AFAIK, Adam, A&M Records was independently owned by founders Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss until the label was sold to Polygram Records in 1989. They would've probably licensed their QUAD masters to the Japanese for CD~4 replication and then requested return of those masters to the US. I would assume that the same situation would've been de rigeur for all the American companies (ABC/DUNHILL/COMMAND/MOTOWN) who licensed their QUAD properties to the Japanese as Japan was noted at the time for superior vinyl pressings compared to their American counterparts.

Doubtful whether those Japanese companies were able to retain those masters legally, although in hindsight, considering the fate of some of those A&M/ABC/DUNHILL QUAD masters [:flame] it might've been a prudent concept....albeit, highly unorthodox.
 

quicksrt

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#18
Are we "certain" that Blow and Wired were not issued in Japan ? I know I don't have a complete Sony Japan Quad listing.
Unlike the rest of the quad World the Japanese Record Companies did continue to support quad releases for at leat 2-3 years longer.
I believe someone in the Quad community had once stated that the reason was Stronger Consumer Regulations .
For certain this was true for CD-4. and therefore JVC . Sony was also very large so it stands to reason---at least as long as CBS USA .



And yes , like you Frederick I would love to get some of the elusive quads, be they prior matrix or discrete disc.
For me , it would be the BTO , and other English speaking acts from the likes of Phillips/Polydor.(Polyglut family), which would and could be all of the UMG hierarchies. (Motown, A&M, MCA, etc).
But hopefully they take an interest , soon.



Sony Japan, well now we know they have tapes :smokin , so perhaps (more than I had originally thought) they could supply Quad BMG artists and with any luck ---more quads soon ,should be nice reality.


Anyways,
It's good news for us knowing that Japan is also a source of Discrete Masters.
We don't know if Sony requested those Beck quad tapes from the US, or they had them or some of them on hand to work from.
 
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Simon A

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#19
We don't know is Sony requested those Beck quad tapes from the US, or they had them or some of them on hand to work from. The one thing that is interesting to me is that they have avoided the one Beck title that Audio Fidelity has already reissued in quad. Will they run off a small run just to complete their 7" quad SACD series, or consider it finished and done?
Which one are you talking about? The Jeff Beck Group (orange on sleeve)? That was was issued.
 

fredblue

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#20
AFAIK, Adam, A&M Records was independently owned by founders Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss until the label was sold to Polygram Records in 1989. They would've probably licensed their QUAD masters to the Japanese for CD~4 replication and then requested return of those masters to the US. I would assume that the same situation would've been de rigeur for all the American companies (ABC/DUNHILL/COMMAND/MOTOWN) who licensed their QUAD properties to the Japanese as Japan was noted at the time for superior vinyl pressings compared to their American counterparts.

Doubtful whether those Japanese companies were able to retain those masters legally, although in hindsight, considering the fate of some of those A&M/ABC/DUNHILL QUAD masters [:flame] it might've been a prudent concept....albeit, highly unorthodox.
possibly, Ralph.. though when ABC/Dunhill/Command got taken over by MCA rather a lot of master tapes of U.S. origin are said to have grown wings and flown to Japan post '79, that's all I'm saying... also, we know Universal have the Quad of Diana Ross' "Last Time I Saw Him" at least, so maybe those Motown Quads are safely tucked up in UMG's vaults after all :)
 
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