Beatles 1+ Blu-Ray / DVD 5.1-channel surround audio on Nov 6, 2015

[alk3997]

I agree with the prevailing sentiment. This set is primarily a video collection, and the 5.1 mixes are disappointing.

The Blu-Ray authoring is nothing short of bizarre, from a human interface and a common sense perspective. If I hit "play all", I wait a LONG time between tracks, and then typically lose the attack on the first note of each track. In case anyone is exploring the internals of the Blu-Ray, I can save you a bit of work. Here's a map from title number to track number. In each case, the song is the sole chapter in the title:

...

And it gets worse: every song is on the Blu-ray twice (as two separate chapters). Near as I can tell, the second instance (not shown in the map above) differs from the first in that it has 10 s. (or so) of silence at the beginning. These guys should take lessons from our own Neil Wilkes.

...and then throw in what appears to be an LFE mastering error and you start to wonder if this was a "rush job"? The graphics before each song seem to cause the player to drop out of 1080p and go into a different resolution. The drop-outs you are hearing/seeing are the result of the player configuration changes and the time it takes for the A/V receiver to pick-up the player's different resolution / settings and then go right back to the original resolution / settings.

I really don't get some of the choices made for creating this disc.

Andy

 

[jdmack]

Just to add my own personal gripe - given how much effort went in to restoring the films for the videos, what the hell happened to "Get Back"? It's like they either forgot to restore it or ran out of time. There's even a section where you can see hair-like debris on the image for several seconds, like it was a home movie or something. Weird.

 

[fredblue]

The more I hear about this set (full disclosure; I don't own it) I hate to be a party pooper and maybe my crystal ball needs a polish.. but just thinking ahead for a moment.. if people think that any potential 5.1's of individual Beatles albums would be more adventurous that this set then I think they're on a hiding to nothing.. I reckon this music videos set was a prime opportunity to get some more discrete mixes out without too many people crying foul.. if/when there are separate 5.1's of say Sgt. Pepper's I can just see people going loopy when the remixes aren't 100% faithful to the original... with these videos, comprising of live performances etc they had a bit more artistic licence and could have just about got away with it - and they, imho, blew that opportunity.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Yup. It took me the better part of a day.

I salute you Guy Robinson! You seem to be more efficient with "extraction" than my dentist!

 

[Ge Someone]

if people think that any potential 5.1's of individual Beatles albums would be more adventurous that this set then I think they're on a hiding to nothing..[..] if/when there are separate 5.1's of say Sgt. Pepper's I can just see people going loopy when the remixes aren't 100% faithful to the original...

You're probably right.
What I don't understand, why when making a 5.1 mix, it should be exactly like the stereo (if you want that, play the stereo). Also why bother to do it and not using all speakers. Again, surround critics should stick to stereo.

 

[Guy Robinson]

I salute you Guy Robinson! You seem to be more efficient with "extraction" than my dentist!

Yup they are all .vob files with only DTS 5.1. For stuff like The Washington Coliseum I had to leave the 3 (I think) songs together in one file as it didn't make much sense to split them as they were one continuous performance.

 

[alk3997]

This gets curiouser and curiouser!

First the video resyncs...On the second to last page of the booklet in the + editions (the page before "I Feel Fried") is the following note:

"Where possible, the video clips within this Blu-Ray have been restored at the native frame rate of the source material. Depending on your individual hardware set-up, you may experience a short delay or flicker between clips as your system adjusts."

The flicker could have been avoided by making the graphics the same rate as the video. It's also curious that I've seen a 1080i/30 fps clip show up.

I'm still looking at the LFE audio. The good news is that it is correctly low pass filtered. The bad news is that on my very earliest look, it appears to be out of phase. But, given it's the LFE, that needs much more work to prove one way or another that it is. However, if you add the LFE to the main channels, the main channel levels decrease in low frequencies. But, as I said, this is a work in progress and that indication might change with more work.

Finally, there is discrete information in the rear channels. The reason it doesn't sound that way is that it is always (always!) duplicated in the fronts. So, at the most extreme you are hearing instruments that will go back about half-way in the sound field. Drums are often spread out this way. Strangely the Bass Guitar is done this way as well. Harmony vocals also seem to be spread throughout the fronts and rears.

More work to be done, as time permits. My ears and instincts still tell me that there is something wrong with the LFE.

Andy

 

[ted_b]

As for the CD, well, I will stick to the usb 48/24 versions. The new versions sound a bit dissected. Perhaps that is not fair as I often feel I can "hear the seams" on the usb versions too! It could be a limitation of the source material.

What USB versions are you referring to? I thought the Apple USB was only for the remastered album catalog, and that was not 24/48 (but instead 24/44.1k). Not trying to be pedantic; just thinking I missed a USB offering for Beatles 1.

 

[ted_b]

I was all set to rip the 5.1 DTS HD MA layer (using HdBrstreamextractor and the Arcsoft tools, etc) and now wonder if it's even worth the purchase. So, it goes without saying..thank you to all the early adopters! Bad news early is good news, I guess.

 

[oxenholme]

I was all set to rip the 5.1 DTS HD MA layer (using HdBrstreamextractor and the Arcsoft tools, etc) and now wonder if it's even worth the purchase. So, it goes without saying..thank you to all the early adopters! Bad news early is good news, I guess.

I think that you must always listen for yourself and decide whether YOU like it.

You may well find that you really like the stereo mixes of many of the tracks - they do sound different to the USB stick / CDs.

You may find that the clip of Hey Bulldog goes some way towards justifying the purchase.

As a 5.1 animal it does not please me at all - as a stereo animal much of it is good

 

[GOS]

I think that you must always listen for yourself and decide whether YOU like it.

You may well find that you really like the stereo mixes of many of the tracks - they do sound different to the USB stick / CDs.

You may find that the clip of Hey Bulldog goes some way towards justifying the purchase.

As a 5.1 animal it does not please me at all - as a stereo animal much of it is good

Thanks for making that point. I have not commented on this disk at all...even though I've listened to it a bit. All in 5.1
I'm now listening in 2 channel stereo. Seems much more pleasing at the moment.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Thanks for making that point. I have not commented on this disk at all...even though I've listened to it a bit. All in 5.1
I'm now listening in 2 channel stereo. Seems much more pleasing at the moment.

To me, it's all about whether the music sounds good. I've always felt The Beatles sound best in mono, especially the early albums with hard-panned, gimmicky stereo after-thought mixes. Even their best stereo albums, though they don't sound too weird, don't do much more for me than their mono counterparts.

So, when I fire this badboy up it's all about whether the music is clear and powerful and whether it goes with the videos and I'm entertained. If the new stereo mixes are less-weird than previous stereo mixes I'll be pretty happy. If the ambient surrounds really don't add much to the experience, maybe the best thing is to play the songs with PLIIx or through the SM or some similar treatment.

 

[jimfisheye]

To me, it's all about whether the music sounds good. I've always felt The Beatles sound best in mono, especially the early albums with hard-panned, gimmicky stereo after-thought mixes.

Those "stereo" mixes are not perceptual stereo like we are used to today. They would be more accurately called "dual mono". The idea was to double the headroom of the system for a cleaner delivery. The mixes were made with the speakers positioned 3' apart. If you want to hear the original "stereo" mixes as intended, put the speakers next to each other and treat the system as mono.

We use stereo to create a perceptional stereo sound field now and the motion that setup creates in these older mixes is an artifact.

 

[edisonbaggins]

The mixes were made with the speakers positioned 3' apart. If you want to hear the original "stereo" mixes as intended, put the speakers next to each other and treat the system as mono.

That would be a fun experiment. I'm just saying, if these new stereo mixes are more modern, it will be an upgraded experience for anybody with non-mobile speakers or who listen through headphones, for example.

 

[JonUrban]

This gets curiouser and curiouser!

.....Finally, there is discrete information in the rear channels. The reason it doesn't sound that way is that it is always (always!) duplicated in the fronts.........

Andy

That's exactly what I found as well.

 

[dr. simple]

I'm very disappointed with this set. As I sat here listening on Friday night, with each new track I thought, "Oh, boy. The QQ is going to light up in flames over this one."

I've got a friend who is a Beatles fanatic without a 5.1 system. Fortunately, he hasn't opened his copy so I told him to return it and he can have mine.

My perception is altered by the fact that this was touted as having "newly created stereo and 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS HD surround audio mixes, produced from the original analogue tapes by Giles Martin with Sam Okell at Abbey Road Studios". I'm not sure I would have bought it just for the videos. As it is, though, I am so disappointed by the absurdity of this sales pitch that I can't stand to have this thing on my shelf. If you think I'm overreacting I'll accept your criticism, but right now I feel like I just got served hamburger helper at a restaurant.

 

[wavelength]

I'm very disappointed with this set. As I sat here listening on Friday night, with each new track I thought, "Oh, boy. The QQ is going to light up in flames over this one."

I've got a friend who is a Beatles fanatic without a 5.1 system. Fortunately, he hasn't opened his copy so I told him to return it and he can have mine.

My perception is altered by the fact that this was touted as having "newly created stereo and 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS HD surround audio mixes, produced from the original analogue tapes by Giles Martin with Sam Okell at Abbey Road Studios". I'm not sure I would have bought it just for the videos. As it is, though, I am so disappointed by the absurdity of this sales pitch that I can't stand to have this thing on my shelf. If you think I'm overreacting I'll accept your criticism, but right now I feel like I just got served hamburger helper at a restaurant.

I hear you! It's almost like...Beatles? - who cares. Never thought I'd feel that way.

 

[Plan9]

This gets curiouser and curiouser!

First the video resyncs...On the second to last page of the booklet in the + editions (the page before "I Feel Fried") is the following note:

"Where possible, the video clips within this Blu-Ray have been restored at the native frame rate of the source material. Depending on your individual hardware set-up, you may experience a short delay or flicker between clips as your system adjusts."

The flicker could have been avoided by making the graphics the same rate as the video. It's also curious that I've seen a 1080i/30 fps clip show up.

I'm still looking at the LFE audio. The good news is that it is correctly low pass filtered. The bad news is that on my very earliest look, it appears to be out of phase. But, given it's the LFE, that needs much more work to prove one way or another that it is. However, if you add the LFE to the main channels, the main channel levels decrease in low frequencies. But, as I said, this is a work in progress and that indication might change with more work.

Finally, there is discrete information in the rear channels. The reason it doesn't sound that way is that it is always (always!) duplicated in the fronts. So, at the most extreme you are hearing instruments that will go back about half-way in the sound field. Drums are often spread out this way. Strangely the Bass Guitar is done this way as well. Harmony vocals also seem to be spread throughout the fronts and rears.

More work to be done, as time permits. My ears and instincts still tell me that there is something wrong with the LFE.

Andy

Thanks for the detective work! It is indeed interesting (to me anyway).

 

[bktouchstone]

What USB versions are you referring to? I thought the Apple USB was only for the remastered album catalog, and that was not 24/48 (but instead 24/44.1k). Not trying to be pedantic; just thinking I missed a USB offering for Beatles 1.

You may be right in that I got the specs wrong. This would be the usb in the green metal Apple.

 

[alk3997]

More good news - not all of the tracks have an LFE issue. I haven't had time yet to analyze all of the tracks but the live recordings and the early 4-track recordings don't seem to have any LFE issues. Lady Madonna sounds great.

To understand what I'm talking about, try to play Ticket To Ride at your normal LFE levels. My listening room actually shakes from the bass. I have to believe that was not the intent, particularly compared to the other tracks that have much more "benign" LFE levels.

Andy

P.S. A reminder that the default audio selection on these discs is "stereo". To get the 5.1-channel mix, for better or worse, you must choose the 5.1-channel mix using the disc's setup menu.