Beatles 1+ Blu-Ray / DVD 5.1-channel surround audio on Nov 6, 2015

[kap'n krunch]

Well, I just CANCELLED my order...if it's NOT like the "Love" mixes, I ain't interested..

WTF, GILES????? :flame:nuke

 

[splinter7]

Now that I have been educated, I am going to return my copy. Thank you to the brave soles that gave this an early listen and reported back on the lack of quadness.
It will cost me $4.00 to return to Amazon but it is probably a better option than selling it to the used store.

--Greg

 

[alk3997]

A lot of information on the Beatles 1+ Blu-Ray video quality and specs can be found here,

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Beatles-1--Deluxe-Blu-ray/140690/#Review

Page down for the review and details.

Andy

 

[OldAsMono]

I too want to try more listening but my brother and I got together Saturday just to preview the new blu-rays. The surround was non-existent on my brothers system and we both just shook our heads in disbelief after the wonderful quality of the "Love" disc. One aspect I considered that could have made "Love" so much better is that since the songs were combined on "Love", it gave them more unique channels of sound to spread out. In other words, they could have one song spread in stereo and then the other song in unique channels to give it the better surround effect. To test this we listened to "A Day In the Life" on "Love" that is only one song playing. It is more stereo with reverb backs like allot of these on the new "1". At the time of "Love" it was the BEST resolution we heard these songs before but there was not much surround on this song. Just a thought. We all need to do more analysis. Besides being ready to send this "1+" set back, I have also lost hope or desire for true surround mixes on the Beatles albums.

 

[alk3997]

I too want to try more listening but my brother and I got together Saturday just to preview the new blu-rays. The surround was non-existent on my brothers system and we both just shook our heads in disbelief after the wonderful quality of the "Love" disc. One aspect I considered that could have made "Love" so much better is that since the songs were combined on "Love", it gave them more unique channels of sound to spread out. In other words, they could have one song spread in stereo and then the other song in unique channels to give it the better surround effect. To test this we listened to "A Day In the Life" on "Love" that is only one song playing. It is more stereo with reverb backs like allot of these on the new "1". At the time of "Love" it was the BEST resolution we heard these songs before but there was not much surround on this song. Just a thought. We all need to do more analysis. Besides being ready to send this "1+" set back, I have also lost hope or desire for true surround mixes on the Beatles albums.

It's actually very easy to find out. Compare the surround mixes on the Yellow Submarine movie Blu-Ray and the Anthology DVDs against the Love DVD-Audio mix. You'll hear how much Love filled out the songs .
The answer really depends upon the song era. Revolver and later era songs are much better (easier) for surround mixes than the earlier era songs.

Andy

 

[GabeL]

I'm returning my copy....simply not worth the $ at this time for a so-so surround mix

 

[Fourplay]

...I feel like I just got served hamburger helper at a restaurant.

Apple stuffing in a turkey.

Actually, I think they did a great job on the video quality. I have been listening to this with just the rears, and it reveals some discrete elements, although as mentioned they tend to be diluted by appearing in the fronts as well. They are like "half discrete" elements, with things biased to the front of rear, but never being fully isolated. In a way, you could get a better surround experience by taking the old stereo mixes and routing left to the fronts and right to the rears. Those mixes are more discrete!

Missed opportunity.

 

[dr. simple]

I too want to try more listening but my brother and I got together Saturday just to preview the new blu-rays. The surround was non-existent on my brothers system and we both just shook our heads in disbelief after the wonderful quality of the "Love" disc. One aspect I considered that could have made "Love" so much better is that since the songs were combined on "Love", it gave them more unique channels of sound to spread out. In other words, they could have one song spread in stereo and then the other song in unique channels to give it the better surround effect. To test this we listened to "A Day In the Life" on "Love" that is only one song playing. It is more stereo with reverb backs like allot of these on the new "1". At the time of "Love" it was the BEST resolution we heard these songs before but there was not much surround on this song. Just a thought. We all need to do more analysis. Besides being ready to send this "1+" set back, I have also lost hope or desire for true surround mixes on the Beatles albums.

Do this with "Something". In fact, that was as far as I got with "1+". Before "Something" began, I turned to the friend with whom I was listening and said, "I better hear some strings behind me." Then I put on the Love mix of "Something". We looked at each other and I said, "Why couldn't they have done THIS???"

 

[alk3997]

Had a little more time this morning and looked at We Can Work It Out. The LFE is approximately 9dB higher than it should be, which isn't as bad as Ticket To Ride at 15dB too high. The We Can Work It Out LFE is almost louder than the individual surround and center channels! It's hard to imagine that was done intentionally.

Comparing the We Can Work It Out Beatles 1+ 5.1-channel mix to the Anthology DVD DTS 5.1-channel mix, the increase in overall loudness with Beatles 1+ jumps out immediately. The average volume differences are as follows (notice the reduced amount of center channel levels):

Front Left = -19dB (Anth) to -11dB (B1) -- 8dB gain
Front Right = -19dB (Anth) to -14dB (B1) -- 5dB gain
Center = -18dB (Anth) to -21dB (B1) -- 3dB loss
LFE = -39dB (Anth) to -23dB (B1) -- 16dB gain
Surround Left = -26dB (Anth) to -19dB (B1) -- 7dB gain
Surround Right = -27dB (Anth) to -21dB (B1) -- 6dB gain

Obviously the vocals have been spread to the front channels reducing the center channel usage in Beatles 1. The surround channels are also increased due to the ambient mush and duplication of the front channels instruments in the rear channels. The LFE increase...I can't explain.

If someone wants to add up the dBs to see which version is louder overall - have at it. When I get a few minutes I may look at peak versus average differences between the two mixes to help see if this is the result of compression.

Overall, add We Can Work It Out to the LFE issues. More to follow when I get a few minutes again.

Andy

 

[GOS]

Had a little more time this morning and looked at We Can Work It Out. The LFE is approximately 9dB higher than it should be, which isn't as bad as Ticket To Ride at 15dB too high. The We Can Work It Out LFE is almost louder than the individual surround and center channels! It's hard to imagine that was done intentionally.

Comparing the We Can Work It Out Beatles 1+ 5.1-channel mix to the Anthology DVD DTS 5.1-channel mix, the increase in overall front left and right loudness with Beatles 1+ jumps out immediately. The average volume differences are as follows (notice the reduced amount of center channel levels):

Front Left = -19dB (Anth) to -11dB (B1) -- 8dB gain
Front Right = -19dB (Anth) to -14dB (B1) -- 5dB gain
Center = -18dB (Anth) to -21dB (B1) -- 3dB loss
LFE = -39dB (Anth) to -23dB (B1) -- 16dB gain
Surround Left = -26dB (Anth) to -19dB (B1) -- 7dB gain
Surround Right = -27dB (Anth) to -21dB (B1) -- 6dB gain

Obviously the vocals have been spread to the front channels reducing the center channel usage in Beatles 1. The surround channels are also increased due to the ambient mush and duplication of the front channels instruments in the rear channels. The LFE increase...I can't explain.

If someone wants to add up the dBs to see which version is louder overall - have at it. When I get a few minutes I may look at peak versus average differences between the two mixes to help see if this is the result of compression.

Overall, add We Can Work It Out to the LFE issues. More to follow when I get a few minutes again.

Andy

Yeah, and in the cases where the LFE is super inflated....it just sounds BAD. You might think a killer sub like I have would somehow handle that and make it sound tolerable...but it doesn't. I had to reduce volume significantly on some tracks. Which is a big pain in the wazoo....

 

[proufo]

I guess we should be thankful that the Audio Fidelity Quad releases do not mess with the LFE (i.e., no factory non-defeatable bass management).

I will get this for the videos, and hope the stereo tracks with recreated ambiance sound OK.

 

[GOS]

I guess we should be thankful that the Audio Fidelity Quad releases do not mess with the LFE (i.e., no factory non-defeatable bass management).

I will get this for the videos, and hope the stereo tracks with recreated ambiance sound OK.

For that, I think it's OK. As I mentioned somewhere else, listening in 2 channel stereo seems to be the way to go IMO. And, the videos...well...I admit to finding them fascinating. Paul & John and sometimes Ringo seem to be laughing at each other at various times. Pranksters...pretty comical really. Also, the early black & white videos...which in reality, are very old school looking are still sort of amazing...in that you can see the sweat on their foreheads or neck at times. Sure never saw that before.

 

[Guy Robinson]

I have a feeling that when I receive this later in the week that I will be using the stereo in conjunction with the 7.1 Channel Enhancer on my receiver. The 5.1 with 2 subs sounds like it will be intolerable.

 

[Elad]

Boy this is getting slammed hard and I can really understand the disappointment of what this could of been, I knew before getting this it was not going to be LOVE and someone on here said it was like surround stereo and would agree.. I have heard a few good numbers on here and was not to crazy about the videos but found in watching them I enjoyed it. Do not feel this will be a regular on my OPPO but I kind of like it for what it is and yes this could of been so much better someone just got lazy and took the easy way out on this... I am glad it was an early christmas present from a friend of mine so nothing lost there. I am looking forward to Tusk which should be fantastic

 

[GOS]

I have a feeling that when I receive this later in the week that I will be using the stereo in conjunction with the 7.1 Channel Enhancer on my receiver. The 5.1 with 2 subs sounds like it will be intolerable.

Pretty much so - especially on a handful of the tracks. Unless you are the type that doesn't mind manually adjusting your subs for output levels.

 

[Guy Robinson]

Pretty much so - especially on a handful of the tracks. Unless you are the type that doesn't mind manually adjusting your subs for output levels.

I will adjust them based on the track with the most bass and that will be the setting for the entire disc. The trouble with that will likely be that the other tracks will be bass shy.

 

[alk3997]

I will adjust them based on the track with the most bass and that will be the setting for the entire disc. The trouble with that will likely be that the other tracks will be bass shy.

I've been meaning to append an answer to the question of how to correct the LFE channel. Thanks for the excuse to finally do it.

If you have 5 full-range speakers and a subwoofer, and you have the speakers set to "large" with your A/V Receiver, then the method you mentioned will work perfectly of lowering the subwoofer level. Hopefully in a few days I'll have a cookbook ready that has which tracks have LFE issues and how much mega-bass to reduce for each problem song. The reason this works in this case is that the only thing going to the subwoofer is the LFE channel.

However, if you don't have 5 full-range speakers, such as a system with small satellites along with a subwoofer, then tweaking the subwoofer level will not completely correct the problem. The reason is that what is going to the subwoofer is the LFE channel plus the lower bass from each of the "small" speakers. By lowering the subwoofer level on the A/V Receiver, all of the low bass is lowered, not just the LFE channel. This becomes a bigger problem if different lower bass is going to the satellites than the LFE channel. You'll end up with lower bass missing.

However, unless one wants to correct the LFE channel in the recording, this may be the only avenue open to most people. If it were me, I'd lower the bass until it was just ever-so slightly boomy. That's probably as close as you are going to get. And, it will vary greatly by song. With a 15dB swing, I'd be surprised if you can find one LFE level that sounds good throughout.

For me, I think I will listen to Jon and my temporary solution will be to play the problem songs with the 96/24 stereo track instead of the 5.1-channel track. One other note is that besides Ticket To Ride (-15dB) and We Can Work It Out (-9dB), I'm pretty sure that Paperback Writer, Penny Lane, Hello Goodbye and Something have issues but I haven't had time to really listen & analyze the full Disc 1 yet so that could change. Disc 2 will get a good listen tomorrow night.

Andy

 

[Guy Robinson]

I've been meaning to append an answer to the question of how to correct the LFE channel. Thanks for the excuse to finally do it.

If you have 5 full-range speakers and a subwoofer, and you have the speakers set to "large" with your A/V Receiver, then the method you mentioned will work perfectly of lowering the subwoofer level. Hopefully in a few days I'll have a cookbook ready that has which tracks have LFE issues and how much mega-bass to reduce for each problem song. The reason this works in this case is that the only thing going to the subwoofer is the LFE channel.

However, if you don't have 5 full-range speakers, such as a system with small satellites along with a subwoofer, then tweaking the subwoofer level will not completely correct the problem. The reason is that what is going to the subwoofer is the LFE channel plus the lower bass from each of the "small" speakers. By lowering the subwoofer level on the A/V Receiver, all of the low bass is lowered, not just the LFE channel. This becomes a bigger problem if different lower bass is going to the satellites than the LFE channel. You'll end up with lower bass missing.

However, unless one wants to correct the LFE channel in the recording, this may be the only avenue open to most people. If it were me, I'd lower the bass until it was just ever-so slightly boomy. That's probably as close as you are going to get. And, it will vary greatly by song. With a 15dB swing, I'd be surprised if you can find one LFE level that sounds good throughout.

For me, I think I will listen to Jon and my temporary solution will be to play the problem songs with the 96/24 stereo track instead of the 5.1-channel track. One other note is that besides Ticket To Ride (-15dB) and We Can Work It Out (-9dB), I'm pretty sure that Paperback Writer, Penny Lane, Hello Goodbye and Something have issues but I haven't had time to really listen & analyze the full Disc 1 yet so that could change. Disc 2 will get a good listen tomorrow night.

Andy

The way that I would fix this is to rip all the tracks to mkv files. The mkv file will contain EITHER the stereo or the DTS MA track. Then I would set the receiver to 7.1 channel enhancer. The tracks in stereo would automatically use the 7.1 enhancer when playing back. This would also switch off automatically for DTS 5.1 96/24 tracks, because that's what my receiver does. So everything would be regulated automatically. Then I would put all the mkv files on my hard drive in order of release date.

 

[alk3997]

That's a great way to do it and will fix (or bypass) the problem tracks.

Andy

 

[Guy Robinson]

That's a great way to do it and will fix (or bypass) the problem tracks.

Andy

And also get all the videos on the 2 discs in the correct order.