Quadio playback issue with Pyle PT694BT AVR and Sony UBP-X800M2

[zdjh22]

FYI - many receivers including all but the highest end of popular, mainstream brands such as Denon cannot play SACDs via the HDMI port. I found this out the hard way with my Denon X3600h (which retailed for $1000+ and can't play the files). Apparently there's a licensing fee associated with playing SACD files (known as DSD files) over HDMI that nobody wants to pay (well expect Sony...b/c they ARE the licensor of DSD). So check to make sure how your player is connected to your receiver. If connected via HDMI, try a different method (coaxial audio, SPDIF, etc).

FWIW I have a Denon AVR-X3600H that I purchased in 2020. It handles native DSD from my Oppo 203 over HDMI just fine. I play multichannel content including via native DSD daily.

Maybe we can help you debug this?

Here’s mine playing BST:

 

[steelydave]

I've moved all the posts about @Bruce00 's playback issues to a new thread for better visibility.

One thing I don't think I've seen mention is that the Quadio discs are authored as 4.0 - there are a number of Blu-Ray players and AVRs (both cheap and expensive, old and new) that don't like passing this format over HDMI, even though it technically is "in spec". I know there was a thread (or two) about this somewhere on here - perhaps someone who was involved in it (or who knows more) can link to them.

One other bit of wisdom I would share - and this isn't in any way to be snide or condescending, it's to save anyone else this same headache - is the old truism of "buy cheap, buy twice." I learned this the hard way about 15 years ago when I got into antique pocket watch collecting - I was bedazzled by these cool old watches, and not knowing anything about anything I started buying up $50 watches to build up a collection. It turns out that watch repairmen are so scarce in modern times (for obvious reasons) that getting one watch cleaned and working is in the neighborhood of $300, and often much more than that if any of the internal workings need replacing. I would've been much better off if I'd learned more about the hobby, bought two or three medium (or high) grade watches, and had them cleaned up. Of course, having my house robbed and the entire collection stolen solved that problem, but that's another story...

I know for a lot of people (and I'm certainly one of them) "just spend more!" isn't a viable option, but the difference betwen a $150 AVR and a $400 AVR (even if you go the used route) is the difference between all these headaches and none of them. Compared to most of the financial titans here I have a really cheap Onkyo AVR from 5 years ago or so, and it handles both 4.0 over HDMI and also DSD over HDMI. I would also be wary of any current model year AVR that doesn't have at the very minimum at least one HDMI 2.0 input because the spec is nearly 10 years old now.

And finally, I'd encourage Rhino to author their future Quadio discs as 5.1 (with silent center and LFE channels) as there's zero detriment to playback for anyone on any system, and it would solve all the problems for people whose older hardware doesn't support 4.0 over HDMI and mean that they could put their disposable income toward buying more music rather than buying more hardware.

 

[kfbkfb]

Bruce00 - The Sony 800 + Pyle receiver gives sound when a CD is played on the Sony 800 connected to an HDMI input on the Pyle?

If so, it should also give sound when a DVD or Blu-ray (or UHD Blu-ray) is played on the Sony 800.


Kirk Bayne

 

[coolerking101]

FWIW I have a Denon AVR-X3600H that I purchased in 2020. It handles native DSD from my Oppo 203 over HDMI just fine. I play multichannel content including via native DSD daily.

Maybe we can help you debug this?

Here’s mine playing BST:
View attachment 94378

WTF?!? Ok. You just made me unbox my old Sony Blu Ray Player (that I had put away in such frustration I apparently forgot to remove the Sticky Fingers SACD in it). Just put in Dylan’s Blood On The Tracks SACD. Still no audio. As you will see in the photos below, my receiver isn’t even detecting any audio. I have also attached photos of the settings which appear to be correct. I already tried toggling between auto and PCM only in the digital audio output section without any success. Any suggestions or input would be appreciated.

 

[zdjh22]

WTF?!? Ok. You just made me unbox my old Sony Blu Ray Player (that I had put away in such frustration I apparently forgot to remove the Sticky Fingers SACD in it). Just put in Dylan’s Blood On The Tracks SACD. Still no audio. As you will see in the photos below, my receiver isn’t even detecting any audio. I have also attached photos of the settings which appear to be correct. I already tried toggling between auto and PCM only in the digital audio output section without any success. Any suggestions or input would be appreciated.

Ouch! I’ve never seen that displayed (“Signal: Unknown”).

Which Sony BDP do you have? I have a BDP-S5100 that I now use for SACD ripping, but before I purchased the Oppo I used the Sony for physical SACD playback. As far as I recall both DSD and PCM mode worked, but I can always reverify quickly. I also have a PS3 which only supports PCM over HDMI, but it works as well.

The things I suspect are the HDMI cable, and how the connection is made to the Denon. Is it direct, and if so which HDMI port (“DVD” from your screen shot unless you’ve relabeled on the Denon)? Or is it via a TV using ARC or eARC?

You can see from my photo that I’m using “Direct” (the yellow button labeled “Pure” on the right side of the bottom row on the remote). It’s probably worth trying that as well (cycle through “direct”, “pure direct”, and “auto”).

 

[zdjh22]

Ouch! I’ve never seen that displayed (“Signal: Unknown”).

Which Sony BDP do you have? I have a BDP-S5100 that I now use for SACD ripping, but before I purchased the Oppo I used the Sony for physical SACD playback. As far as I recall both DSD and PCM mode worked, but I can always reverify quickly. I also have a PS3 which only supports PCM over HDMI, but it works as well.

The things I suspect are the HDMI cable, and how the connection is made to the Denon. Is it direct, and if so which HDMI port (“DVD” from your screen shot unless you’ve relabeled on the Denon)? Or is it via a TV using ARC or eARC?

You can see from my photo that I’m using “Direct” (the yellow button on the right side of the bottom row on the remote). It’s probably worth trying that as well (cycle through “direct”, “pure”, and “auto”).

OK, I replaced the Oppo with the Sony S5100. Both DSD and PCM modes worked (screenshots below, as well as the Audio config screen on the Sony when set to DSD). Also a screen shot showing the PS3 doing PCM out over HDMI, and a shot of the input labeling on my Denon.

 

[zdjh22]

A couple of last thoughts.

Check your Denon firmware version - mine is 2400-6274-2154-8090, DTS version 3.90.50.82. Both are current. There’s also a menu item that allows you to install more features (via firmware presumably), but I’ve never had to do that.

On avforums.com (not avsforum.com) look at the thread “No audio from Sony Blu-Ray via Denon X1700H.” There is a claim there that Sony-Denon HDMI handshaking failures are a long standing problem (despite my Sony S5100 working perfectly with my 3600). Lots of recipes to follow, although most involve going through a TV with ARC or eARC. Does your Sony via the Denon play movies correctly, and in particular, DTS or Dolby surround? How about Atmos, if you happen to have a BluRay audio or video disk with Atmos?

 

[coolerking101]

A couple of last thoughts.

Check your Denon firmware version - mine is 2400-6274-2154-8090, DTS version 3.90.50.82. Both are current. There’s also a menu item that allows you to install more features (via firmware presumably), but I’ve never had to do that.

On avforums.com (not avsforum.com) look at the thread “No audio from Sony Blu-Ray via Denon X1700H.” There is a claim there that Sony-Denon HDMI handshaking failures are a long standing problem (despite my Sony S5100 working perfectly with my 3600). Lots of recipes to follow, although most involve going through a TV with ARC or eARC. Does your Sony via the Denon play movies correctly, and in particular, DTS or Dolby surround? How about Atmos, if you happen to have a BluRay audio or video disk with Atmos?

F-me. The issue is my LG TV being set to “deep color” in the HDMI input even though the TV is not even in the audio path. Unbelievable. Still can’t get bitstreamed DSD files to play off my computer, but I’ll have to go digging a bit more on that. Thank you so much for your help. I’m usually the one fixing electronics for everyone else, so I’m truly humbled.

 

[kfbkfb]

Bruce00 - One way to get a fairly accurate version of the surround sound on the Rhino Quadios with your Sony 800 and Pyle:

Set the Sony 800 to create a Dolby Surround encoded version of the DTS 4.0 audio on the Quadio(s).

Set the Sony 800 for PCM output (I hope this will send stereo [Dolby Surround encoded] audio via HDMI to the Pyle receiver).

Use the Hafler/DynaQuad passive speaker matrix system and connect at least 1 speaker "the Hafler way", this speaker should be placed behind the listener.

What this setup will do is combine Left Back and Right Back from the DTS 4.0 play it through the 1 speaker behind the listener.


Kirk Bayne

 

[zdjh22]

F-me. The issue is my LG TV being set to “deep color” in the HDMI input even though the TV is not even in the audio path. Unbelievable. Still can’t get bitstreamed DSD files to play off my computer, but I’ll have to go digging a bit more on that. Thank you so much for your help. I’m usually the one fixing electronics for everyone else, so I’m truly humbled.

Congrats! The 3600 remains the best of the Denon 3x00 line (at least according to SINAD measurements at audiosciencereview.com) and is also the cheapest. I love mine. As you can tell I also have an LG TV, but don’t go the eARC route so I’ve never been bitten by this particular bug.

I doubt that direct bitstreamed DSD from a PC over HDMI is ever going to happen, at least not from a Windows or Apple Mac PC because the various video card vendors are not very likely to add that feature to their drivers unless Sony gives the OK. I use either my Oppo 203 with alternative firmware or an Oppo clone (I have an M9702 and an M9203) to play native DSD from either NFS- or SMB-exported ISO files from my NAS, but that means I put up with the Oppo human interface (definitely not as nice as PLEX or Roon or the like). The expensive Zidoo Neo Alpha can bitstream native DSD, so that proves that their Android Linux kernel has a modified video driver that is willing to send DSD over HDMI. So perhaps we’ll see those modifications ported to other Linux kernels someday, but I‘m not holding my breath. Some of the code infrastructure for DSD over HDMI is in the current Linux kernel, but it‘s only some definitions in data structures.

 

[coolerking101]

Congrats! The 3600 remains the best of the Denon 3x00 line (at least according to SINAD measurements at audiosciencereview.com) and is also the cheapest. I love mine. As you can tell I also have an LG TV, but don’t go the eARC route so I’ve never been bitten by this particular bug.

I doubt that direct bitstreamed DSD from a PC over HDMI is ever going to happen, at least not from a Windows or Apple Mac PC because the various video card vendors are not very likely to add that feature to their drivers unless Sony gives the OK. I use either my Oppo 203 with alternative firmware or an Oppo clone (I have an M9702 and an M9203) to play native DSD from either NFS- or SMB-exported ISO files from my NAS, but that means I put up with the Oppo human interface (definitely not as nice as PLEX or Roon or the like). The expensive Zidoo Neo Alpha can bitstream native DSD, so that proves that their Android Linux kernel has a modified video driver that is willing to send DSD over HDMI. So perhaps we’ll see those modifications ported to other Linux kernels someday, but I‘m not holding my breath. Some of the code infrastructure for DSD over HDMI is in the current Linux kernel, but it‘s only some definitions in data structures.

I definitely have enjoyed the 3600, though it did die on me once already (video over all HDMI ports would intermittently cut out). Had to take in for repair and the repairmen told me I'm far from the first 3600 he had received with this issue. That being said, that was a year ago and it's been working fine since.

The weird thing is, I don't have ARC turned on! My TV should be completely out of the audio loop...so I'm really stumped as to why that fix worked.

I ripped all my SACDs and Blu Rays long ago and my electronic equipment is behind a wall...so using physical media is a huge pain. I wouldn't have thought my ripped SACDs would sound any different, but when A/B-ing Sticky Fingers through my SACD player and PC, the SACD did sound better. Maybe it's just my brain playing tricks on me, but I guess my SACD player is going to get a lot more use....