Rush - "Presto" & "Roll The Bones" Discussion

[RustyStatic]

RtB was my "new" album. I nearly despise it.

"Nearly"?

 

[edisonbaggins]

"Nearly"?

View attachment 95190

As with all Rush albums, there are at least a few crackin' tunes!
Dreamline, Bravado, Where's My Thing, The Big Wheel, Ghost of a Chance.
That's a strong EP right there. With a great remix, I'd be all in for those cuts alone.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

My least favorite Rush album has been Test For Echo. It’s not a bad album (is there a bad Rush record?), it’s just my least favorite and listened to, in their catalog. I used to not like Snakes and Arrows until I played the 5.1 version again last year. Only after listening to it twice when I first purchased it when it was released, I buried it in my Rush pile of discs, never to play it again. Last year, I dusted it off and played it again. Now, I can appreciate the songs on the album.

I first heard Rush, through my friends, while in my late teens, early twenties. They used to play all their albums up to that point in their career with 2112. I just couldn’t get into them at the time because I hated Geddy’s screaming singing voice. Though, I did like the title track 2112 okay. What’s funny, being older (it actually started in my 40’s’), I now prefer his voice during those earlier albums. I started purchasing Rush records in 1980 with Permanent Waves. I purchased that album because I heard the song, The Spirit Of Radio, off the radio and thought it was kick-ass. The album turned out very good too. From then on, I purchased every single Rush album going forward except for Presto, which I didn’t get until sometime in the early 2000’s.

My favorites and most listened to in their catalog are:

Moving Pictures
Signals
Grace Under Pressure
Hold Your Fire
Presto
Roll The Bones
Counterparts
Clockwork Angels

I like and play all their albums but those are the albums I play more-so than the others in their catalog. Roll The Bones is the album I most sing along to. I can only imagine what they could have achieved if the great Neil Peart was still with us.

Everyone has their favorites. Thanks to all for sharing!

 

[Bill B]

My least favorite Rush album has been Test For Echo. It’s not a bad album (is there a bad Rush record?), it’s just my least favorite and listened to, in their catalog. I used to not like Snakes and Arrows until I played the 5.1 version again last year. Only after listening to it twice when I first purchased it when it was released, I buried it in my Rush pile of discs, never to play it again. Last year, I dusted it off and played it again. Now, I can appreciate the songs on the album.

I first heard Rush, through my friends, while in my late teens, early twenties. They used to play all their albums up to that point in their career with 2112. I just couldn’t get into them at the time because I hated Geddy’s screaming singing voice. Though, I did like the title track 2112 okay. What’s funny, being older (it actually started in my 40’s’), I now prefer his voice during those earlier albums. I started purchasing Rush records in 1980 with Permanent Waves. I purchased that album because I heard the song, The Spirit Of Radio, off the radio and thought it was kick-ass. The album turned out very good too. From then on, I purchased every single Rush album going forward except for Presto, which I didn’t get until sometime in the early 2000’s.

My favorites and most listened to in their catalog are:

Moving Pictures
Signals
Grace Under Pressure
Hold Your Fire
Presto
Roll The Bones
Counterparts
Clockwork Angels

I like and play all their albums but those are the albums I play more-so than the others in their catalog. Roll The Bones is the album I most sing along to. I can only imagine what they could have achieved if the great Neil Peart was still with us.

Everyone has their favorites. Thanks to all for sharing!

Regarding Geddy’s voice, check out a Rush tribute album if you get a chance. The songs just don’t sound right with anyone else’s voice. At least in my experience.

 

[JulesRules]

Presto was actually the first Rush album I heard in full (I got into the band by winning the Studio Albums 1989-2007 box set) and I still think it's not anywhere as bad as its reputation. In context of the band's overall career, it was important to dial back the synths and return to a more guitar-driven sound, and there's only maybe two or three songs on it I'm kinda "meh" about.

Roll the Bones has good moments but I don't like it as much. Counterparts is my favourite late period Rush album but there's something to be said for the Rupert Hine sound on those two previous albums, which emphasizes the band's quest for "precision" quite nicely IMO. What worked for Saga should work for Rush, after all...

I love Fly By Night thru Moving Pictures. I still think they were one hell of a band and there are bright points throughout the later albums. I wouldn't mind having a listen to some of that if I could find copies of those albums that weren't extreme compressed volume war hash sounding things!

That 'classic' run all saw genuine HD releases. Of course there have been novelty editions released since with appalling fidelity even for those. Making those HD editions rare or whatever that was supposed to do. I haven't found anything for any of the later albums that isn't just trounced on so hard you can't turn the volume up at all.

I'd like to ask about best recommendations for official releases of all those albums but it would get my post removed and I'd be scolded not to ask about bootlegs even though I literally asked about official releases.

Test for Echo + Snakes & Arrows got good remasters. Clockwork Angels sadly not.

If you haven't heard the remix of Vapor Trails and are sensitive to compression and oversaturation, you might like it. While not devoid of compression, the treatment in the mix is more spacious.

https://www.amazon.com/Vapor-Trails-Remixed-Rush/dp/B00E9P959O
My favorite VT mix was the fan generated one, using a set of tools and instructions (DIY) to remove the clipping/distorted peaks. Once the chainsaw buzz is gone, the heaviness of the album is clear. It could be their hardest rock album (Counterparts would be another example/candidate). The remix from 2013 neuters some of the edge from the album in a way I feel steals from its impact musically, but sonically there's no doubt the 2013 remix is better overall.

There's also the 2013 remaster of the original mix, which removes the clipping but doesn't alter the general sonic makeup of the album as much. It's still quite compressed, as is the remix. It disappeared rather quickly from many download stores, but you can still get it from Qobuz.

 

[IMachine]

I got into them with Hold Your Fire and I like that album very much till today.
My favorite albums are:
Hold Your Fire
Signals
Permanent Waves
Moving Pictures
Hemispheres
Presto
Power Windows
Grace Under Pressure.

Rush is the band with the most quality albums overtime. No other band could do that imho.

 

[edisonbaggins]

There's also the 2013 remaster of the original mix, which removes the clipping but doesn't alter the general sonic makeup of the album as much. It's still quite compressed, as is the remix. It disappeared rather quickly from many download stores, but you can still get it from Qobuz.

@stoopid this.
I've preached the 2013 remaster til blue in the face.
I scored it by buying the Studio Albums download in the first few days, before it was replaced by the remix.
Good to know it's actually still legally available.

 

[cbmmm3]

How did I get into Rush you ask ?

High School French class.

Its a long story but Ill give the abbreviated version.

It was 1977. I had to take a foreign language. Well all us guys knew that the French teacher was - um - quite spicy.
And on top of all of that - she was pretty cool.
So you can guess what language class I took

On Fridays - once in a while at least - she would play French music on the record player.
Well - one day after some pleading and sweet talking she let her guard down.

And one of my classmates had with him an album called 2112.
Up until that day Id never heard it. And was not familiar with Rush

My life changed after that day. And prolly our French teacher's chance for tenure after that day also

 

[edisonbaggins]

How did I get into Rush you ask ?

High School French class.

Its a long story but Ill give the abbreviated version.

It was 1977. I had to take a foreign language. Well all us guys knew that the French teacher was - um - quite spicy.
And on top of all of that - she was pretty cool.
So you can guess what language class I took

On Fridays - once in a while at least - she would play French music on the record player.
Well - one day after some pleading and sweet talking she let her guard down.

And one of my classmates had with him an album called 2112.
Up until that day Id never heard it. And was not familiar with Rush

My life changed after that day. And prolly our French teacher's chance for tenure after that day also

Circumstances and Entre Nous didn't exist yet, but they'd have been perfect choices!

 

[jimfisheye]

2112 really knocked it out of the park! (Lakeside Park? I do like that pairing on that side of All the World's A Stage!)
Also my favorite rock 'n roll story. They knew they were about to be dumped by the label. So... Fine! Fuck you then, the album-side long track is going on side 1 this time! And then suddenly they became their own bosses for life.

I digress as usual. It would still be great to see the 'later years' catalog mastered much more properly!

 

[edisonbaggins]

I digress as usual. It would still be great to see the 'later years' catalog mastered much more properly!

Are we to assume you've heard the best remasters? If so, which versions do you point to as best?
Some of the later years albums sound, to my ears, as though they weren't mixed particularly well. The best remaster in the world is only going to do so much, in those cases.

 

[jimfisheye]

Are we to assume you've heard the best remasters? If so, which versions do you point to as best?
Some of the later years albums sound, to my ears, as though they weren't mixed particularly well. The best remaster in the world is only going to do so much, in those cases.

It's impossible to tell without the source audio for the raw mixes of course! We can go by telltale artifacts we are familiar with as best as possible to guess. You know when you hear a cassette copy made on a malfunctioning deck that that artifact is from a bad tape copy and obviously not from an original mix. For an obvious example.

And then it leads down the rabbit hole to select examples where someone's mastering touches elevate a mix. If you heard an example of that, you might guess the mastered copy as the source because it sounded better.

So, I can't just know it's the mastering I'm complaining about!
It sure sounds like it though. These sound like very accomplished mixes - a pattern for these guys over the years - that have compression damage and treble eq hype. It could be baked into the mix. If so... then we are in fact done here. But if not, maybe we can treat ourselves to better seats for some of these albums.

 

[edisonbaggins]

It's impossible to tell without the source audio for the raw mixes of course! We can go by telltale artifacts we are familiar with as best as possible to guess. You know when you hear a cassette copy made on a malfunctioning deck that that artifact is from a bad tape copy and obviously not from an original mix. For an obvious example.

And then it leads down the rabbit hole to select examples where someone's mastering touches elevate a mix. If you heard an example of that, you might guess the mastered copy as the source because it sounded better.

So, I can't just know it's the mastering I'm complaining about!
It sure sounds like it though. These sound like very accomplished mixes - a pattern for these guys over the years - that have compression damage and treble eq hype. It could be baked into the mix. If so... then we are in fact done here. But if not, maybe we can treat ourselves to better seats for some of these albums.

Actually curious about which remasters you've tried. I'd have to jog my own memory, but it seems that the "best" ones, to my ears were done somewhere in the 2013 - 2015 time frame, maybe?
I've never heard a version of S&A that sounds great. Don't think CA has been remastered and it's a muddy mess. You can only have so many flamenco bass parts and taurus pedals running at the same time and make it work.

The 2013 remaster of VT is as good as that album sounds, to me. Unfortunately, it reveals distortion on individually recorded parts (like, certain guitar parts, when everything else sounds very clear) - so that album possibly suffers all the way back to the recording process.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I compare many versions of Signals here. Might be a hoot to watch, whether you agree with my ears or not.

 

[kap'n krunch]

I compare many versions of Signals here. Might be a hoot to watch, whether you agree with my ears or not.

You need the original Japanese LP version, you would love it.

 

[cbmmm3]

I really really enjoy this version

https://www.discogs.com/release/27241683-Rush-Signals-シグナルズ-40周年記念リマスターエディション-

 

[stoopid]

There's also the 2013 remaster of the original mix, which removes the clipping but doesn't alter the general sonic makeup of the album as much. It's still quite compressed, as is the remix. It disappeared rather quickly from many download stores, but you can still get it from Qobuz.

I might have that, from HD Tracks(?). It does sound good, on par with the fan DIY remaster years prior.

 

[jimfisheye]

Looks like I have most of the 2015 HD masters. Same as the 'classic years' albums. I'm aware HDTracks can be the worst of the worst sometimes. They never have providence. HD format can be meaningless and all that. So I wouldn't be too shocked to find I've comically grabbed the worst versions!

The classic albums all sound like the recordings the original vinyl must have come from. (Including the Holland pressings of 2112, Moving Pictures, and Rush Through Time.) All the CD editions I heard for those were poor.

 

[fcormier]

I was a die hard fan of Rush until Snakes & Arrows came out (got the MVI DVD). I have all their studio albums and several live albums (and no compilations) and I have seen them live four times. For mix and mastering, I've separated it in several periods:

1. Raw (Rush to Hemispheres)
2. Balanced (Permanent Waves to Signal - their best period in my opinion)
3. Thin (Grace Under Pressure to Roll The Bones - Steinberger and Wal basses, lots of synths and electronic drums)
4. Loud (Counterparts and Test For Echo, their last good album for my taste)
5. Saturated mess (Vapor Trails to Clockwork Angels - their most uninspired material)

The last live album that had a good mix and mastering was Different Stages and after that, they were saturated messes (like their studio albums). Around the mid-2000s (R30 and S&A), I felt that they were just in it for the money and their music was downhill since TFE.

All that being said, returning to the main subject, Presto was OK, a little boring (fell asleep on the first listen), and Roll The Bones was better (for my tastes).

 

[edisonbaggins]

All that being said, returning to the main subject, Presto was OK, a little boring (fell asleep on the first listen), and Roll The Bones was better (for my tastes).

One could make a bitchin' LP length album, selecting tracks from Presto and RtB.

Roll the Bunnies
Presto! Bones!
Or whatever you'd want to call it.