Steven Wilson The Yes Album 4CD/LP/Blu-Ray Super Deluxe box coming November 24 (with Steven Wilson Dolby Atmos mix!)

[JulesRules]

I wonder how SW has all these sessions archived. Are all his original 5.1 mixes just sitting on a hard drive, as a Logic session ready to go for Atmos? Or is he going back to the multitracks and working from scratch? I assume he is ready to revisit any of his old 5.1 mixes for Atmos at this point.

In this case, he apparently didn't work from scratch, but just went back to the original session. Whereas the King Crimson re-remixes he did were done completely from scratch.

 

[AYanguas]

I pretty much always have hdmi handshake issues on any disc- my AVRs (at least the last 3) have to see what the audio codec is and then negotiate a handshake, which causes dropouts of around 3 seconds- movies as well as music discs. But I can always work around this by starting the disc on mute, letting the handshake complete, then hitting the back button and un-muting. But this work-around does not work on my copy of the Yes Album Deluxe (playing through an Oppo 103).

Now I have a particular big hdmi handshake, because I'm using a HDFury Vertex 2 as the input hdmi selector and hdmi outputs to the Displays (TV & Projector). The Sound hdmi outpout goes to a single HDMI input on my AVR that still works only for audio. Unfortunately my AVR DENON HDMI card has failed. No output works and some inputs work only for audio and fail for video.

The right way to do bluray authoring is to generate a single M2TS file for the whole album. Regardless of whether the album contains gap or gapless songs.

But this does not avoid the problem with the very beggining first song. They should "master" or "author" the Bluray with some seconds of silence at the beginning of the album, to give enough time for everybody's hdmi handshake.

This problem has happened always with movies and music Blurays. It goes unnoticed when the sound starts with an amount of silence or a low enough fade-in.
In this album, "Yours Is No Disgrace" starts immediately with the high volume first guitar/drum/bass note. And we always lose it

I have created 10 seconds silence TrueHD Atmos file to make an initial append with MKVToolNix for the albums I really like. But we shouldn't make this effort.

I wonder why the Authoring Technicians, or the Quality Assurance testing or whoever do not address this problem that is very easy to solve.

 

[ProgRules]

But this does not avoid the problem with the very beggining first song. They should "master" or "author" the Bluray with some seconds of silence at the beginning of the album, to give enough time for everybody's hdmi handshake.

Yes, this would make total sense. You'd think they would do this. I know some movies start silent, but that's the way the movie was made, not how it was mastered.

 

[hi-res_edition]

OK - Here is the link for Customer Service... click the Specialty Request link at the top of the page.
https://wmgspecialtycustomerservice.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

The known issue is the cutoff of audio at the start of certain songs, I believe these are "Yours Is No Disgrace" and "Perpetual Change" - describe your issue if this effects you. All the best in receiving your replacement BD disc.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

OK - Here is the link for Customer Service... click the Specialty Request link at the top of the page.
https://wmgspecialtycustomerservice.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

The known issue is the cutoff of audio at the start of certain songs, I believe these are "Yours Is No Disgrace" and "Perpetual Change" - describe your issue if this effects you. All the best in receiving your replacement BD disc.

Thanks for being a "good scout" and getting involved in this.

I was skeptical because yours was the first mention of a replacement disc I've seen here or on the Hoffman forum.

I was hoping to provoke the grownups in the room to step in and comment. @ForagingRhino

My impression is there may be a low-profile disc replacement program, for the "one-percenters" affected.

I'm leery of the mob mentality of torches and pitchforks, with demands for 100% recall and replacement for minor authoring flaws of blu rays.

All it takes is one casual mention of "defective discs" around here and the sky is falling.
I urge folks to show some restraint pending comment from the powers that be.

Now I have a particular big hdmi handshake, because I'm using a HDFury Vertex 2 as the input hdmi selector and hdmi outputs to the Displays (TV & Projector). The Sound hdmi outpout goes to a single HDMI input on my AVR that still works only for audio. Unfortunately my AVR DENON HDMI card has failed. No output works and some inputs work only for audio and fail for video.

The right way to do bluray authoring is to generate a single M2TS file for the whole album. Regardless of whether the album contains gap or gapless songs.

But this does not avoid the problem with the very beggining first song. They should "master" or "author" the Bluray with some seconds of silence at the beginning of the album, to give enough time for everybody's hdmi handshake.

This problem has happened always with movies and music Blurays. It goes unnoticed when the sound starts with an amount of silence or a low enough fade-in.
In this album, "Yours Is No Disgrace" starts immediately with the high volume first guitar/drum/bass note. And we always lose it

I have created 10 seconds silence TrueHD Atmos file to make an initial append with MKVToolNix for the albums I really like. But we shouldn't make this effort.

I wonder why the Authoring Technicians, or the Quality Assurance testing or whoever do not address this problem that is very easy to solve.

Yes, this would make total sense. You'd think they would do this. I know some movies start silent, but that's the way the movie was made, not how it was mastered.

This dialog was posted at Hoffman five months ago:

Q: tlake6659, Dec 6, 2023
Anybody have an issue with the beginning of the 1st track getting clipped on all versions in the box set?
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thre...ovember-24-2023.1181407/page-24#post-33425378
Q: [tlake6659, Dec 6, 2023]
Should have it play a few seconds of silence before the track starts. I believe that would fix the issue.
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thre...ovember-24-2023.1181407/page-24#post-33428291

A: Steel Woole, Dec 6, 2023 (Rhino producer Steve Woolard, Foraging Rhino on this forum)

Yeah. Craigman does that for Rhino's BD discs.
Craigman did not author the Yes BD.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-yes-album-super-deluxe-edition-due-november-24-2023.1181407/page-25#post-3343555

 

[ProgRules]

The suggestion to set the audio output to PCM makes no sense. You have to use bitstream to get Atmos.

 

[ProgRules]

OK - Here is the link for Customer Service... click the Specialty Request link at the top of the page.
https://wmgspecialtycustomerservice.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

The known issue is the cutoff of audio at the start of certain songs, I believe these are "Yours Is No Disgrace" and "Perpetual Change" - describe your issue if this effects you. All the best in receiving your replacement BD disc.

Thanks for the link. I just emailed Rhino. I'll try this.

 

[~dave~~wave~]

The suggestion to set the audio output to PCM makes no sense. You have to use bitstream to get Atmos.

My bad. You're correct, it was pointed out immediately at the time.
I'll edit my post above.

Next two posts down: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thre...ovember-24-2023.1181407/page-24#post-33427726

 

[AYanguas]

I've already said this in other posts, but let me say it again.

A good example of how to supply Atmos files with the first 10 seconds silent can be found on the site:

Pure Audio SONIC LEAKS von Silent Work in Dolby Atmos und Auro-3D

Please go through that page and find and download one of the 'MKV Dolby Atmos Snippet'. You will find that in the video there is an initial 10 sec silence with a message in the video that clearly says:
HANDSHAKE: Xs (X is the seconds countdown)

This should be done for both downloadable files and M2TS files on a Bluray: Single file for the whole album with 10s initial silence.

In case you missed this post in which I explained the topic:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...ee-my-workaround-in-post-41.34938/post-736743

 

[AYanguas]

This idea has come to me. Somehow, the analog equivalent to the digital implementation of the initial silence to allow the handshake, is found in the beginning of the grooves of a vinyl.

Since it is not possible for even an automatic turntable to place the arm/needle exactly at the beginning of the recorded grooves, that is why there is an initial area, with silence, where the needle is placed before to begin playback.

 

[CINERAMAX]

 

[srbjab]

It's so typical that well over a decade since it's inception (~2000), this greed driven copyright protection hand-shake protocol (HDCP) is still not implemented reliably by hardware manufacturers, and in a way that does not burden consumers or content providers with compromised playback or the need for jerry-rigged workarounds such as inserting silence at the beginning of recordings. It's also typical that the protocol simply cannot account for the almost infinite variety and age of all the possible components or configurations in the playback chain. Although you'd think inserting a full 10 seconds of "active" silence before a recorded signal is transmitted should be enough to allow the handshake to complete, it's been documented that with some components and configurations the handshake can take up to 20-40 seconds to resolve, and often results in failure.

Unfortunately the industry answer always seems to be "buy newer equipment", "buy better cables", or simply live with having to "skip back to the beginning". Such is the world we live in and I doubt it will ever substantially change.

 

[jimfisheye]

So AVRs are 2nd class to HTPC.
Keep it on the computer and avoid HDMI (beyond displays). Atmos and not licensing it to the media players is the first real direct assault on HTPC.

Anyway, this mix is still one of my favorites. I still like his 5.1 mix of Fragile a lot. It sounded a little thin listening to it immediately following this 7.1.4 mix of TYA though. I was surprised at the contrast.

 

[thebarnman]

The authoring causes the first moments of any selected track to be silent on some systems. It's an HDMI handshake issue common to many discs. The usual workaround is to start playing and skip or rewind to the beginning, but some report that it doesn't work on this release.

I'm kind of used to having to do that while watching a movie with Atmos. I don't skip around in movies, but if I pause or sometimes at the start of a movie, I have to go back again to get it to work.

I haven't opened my new Yes Blu-ray at this time but I'll be sure to be on the outlook for such a issue.

Thanks!

 

[thebarnman]

If Steven can do it, I can do it!

 

[hi-res_edition]

I realize I should also be clear, this is not an initial handshake problem, but also occurs when going back to the start of the tracks at issue. I noticed this on Apple Music and it has been subsequently fixed there too along with this corrected disc created for those effected. I agree silence at the start is critical until tech catches up.

 

[AYanguas]

I agree silence at the start is critical until tech catches up.

I doubt tech Will catch up for a really minority of users.

Even for film blurays, where the problem has been there always, when changing intros to the film, etc... Nobody cares of that.