Porcupine Tree 5.1 remasters - Deadwing / In Absentia - getting nearer?

[knifeman]

Finally got my replacement disc. Not as happy as I should be as once again I paid deluxe edition money for a less than deluxe edition disc. Nobody should have to screw around with these mixes to get them where they (allegedly) should have been in the first place. If it wasn't for the missing bonus content, I wonder if a "corrected" disc would have even been issued.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I sent press@snapper a detailed email today, explaining the 3 problems with the original mastering, and how they only corrected 1.
Plus, how this negatively affects the sound across all my systems (others' mileage may vary, of course).
Attached images for proof. I doubt the official 5.1 will receive any further correction, but hopefully it will be food for thought for them...

 

[onthewall2983]

I got mine from Amazon, and the Blu is without the bonus tracks in stereo. Is there a way I can ask for a replacement disc because I didn't buy it through Burningshed?

 

[knifeman]

[

I got mine from Amazon, and the Blu is without the bonus tracks in stereo. Is there a way I can ask for a replacement disc because I didn't buy it through Burningshed?

E-mail [email protected]. requesting a replacement disc and attaching proof of purchase with your info.

 

[SMS]

Is the 10ms delay something that can be adjusted by my receiver? There's an option for Phase Control+ on my Pioneer Elite SC-95 that deals with the group delay. I can set it anywhere from 0-16ms. Or is that something totally different?

I don't think this would work because the LFE is already delayed 10ms. You would need -10ms delay on your LFE. I suppose you could maybe delay ALL other channels by 10ms to compensate.

However, be careful if you use bass management. I am not sure if the delays would come before or after the crossovers and bass summing. Turning off all bass management would give you the best chance of success at correcting this in your AVR.

It is almost certainly best to do the correction in Audacity. That is what I have done, and the result is vastly improved. The delay DOES make a difference especially if you use any bass management in your AVR/Preamp. If you use bass management you can see how the bass waveform from the front L/R would mostly cancel the LFE if the delay is not corrected. The same thing can happen acoustically in your room but it will be less obvious.

 

[hatchling]

Good to hear the centre channel has been fixed. I still don’t understand how it was estimated the LFE should be boosted by exactly 7.6dB. There must be a logic behind that number I guess. I’m also not sure if the delay is a deliberate choice or a mistake.
I hope to get my copy soon so that I can do some tests, even though I always thought it sounded great anyway

Indeed, so far there hasn't been concrete evidence presented here that boosting the LFE by that amount was the intention for this mix. That part is all based around one cryptic remark by Plan9 and that isn't enough for me. The 10ms shift also may or may not play much of a factor at all since it's a pretty small offset (it might be imperceptible).

Now, the one indisputed _error_ was an inverted center phase channel. That was clearly a mistake and is something KScope has rectified, so I think we should give them some credit for that.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Indeed, so far there hasn't been concrete evidence presented here that boosting the LFE by that amount was the intention for this mix. That part is all based around one cryptic remark by Plan9 and that isn't enough for me. The 10ms shift also may or may not play much of a factor at all since it's a pretty small offset (it might be imperceptible).

Now, the one indisputed _error_ was an inverted center phase channel. That was clearly a mistake and is something KScope has rectified, so I think we should give them some credit for that.

Have you played the difference between the 1 correction and the 3 corrections on your systems? Those of us who have are pretty clearly stating the improvement is immense. So, there is that. Also the email from Burningshed stating the offset would be fixed.

 

[hatchling]

Have you played the difference between the 1 correction and the 3 corrections on your systems? Those of us who have are pretty clearly stating the improvement is immense. So, there is that. Also the email from Burningshed stating the offset would be fixed.

Yes and the difference in the amount of bass is very pronounced with that level of boost. Since I'm not a sound engineer I'm hesitant to go with my first instinct and apply that to my canonical listening copy. Sometimes boosting the bass makes things sound better on the surface but may end up masking or overshadowing other elements of the music (i.e. the Beats headphones effect).

I'm certainly not saying anyone is wrong to do this with their own mix but since this is such a niche subject I imagine this will be the thread of record for this topic for all time. I'd like to ensure we're separating out what the facts are versus preference.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Yes and the difference in the amount of bass is very pronounced with that level of boost. Since I'm not a sound engineer I'm hesitant to go with my first instinct and apply that to my canonical listening copy. Sometimes boosting the bass makes things sound better on the surface but may end up masking or overshadowing other elements of the music (i.e. the Beats headphones effect).

I'm certainly not saying anyone is wrong to do this with their own mix but since this is such a niche subject I imagine this will be the thread of record for this topic for all time. I'd like to ensure we're separating out what the facts are versus preference.

Fair enough, so let's not discount that burningshed said the offset would be corrected and a mastering engineer has said the LFE shouldn't have been lowered for DVD-A, ok?

 

[hatchling]

Fair enough, so let's not discount that burningshed said the offset would be corrected and a mastering engineer has said the LFE shouldn't have been lowered for DVD-A, ok?

Yes, that's fair enough. More background from the mastering engineer about exactly what was done to the LFE and their involvement with this project would be helpful to resolve this I think.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Yes, that's fair enough. More background from the mastering engineer about exactly what was done to the LFE and their involvement with this project would be helpful to resolve this I think.

True, true. My suspicion is we'll never really know more than we already do. I have inquired with several entities that might be able to shed some light, if they're allowed and if they care to.
I have a very high degree of confidence that we've unearthed the true problems with the original mastering. It's ok if others have a lower degree of confidence. Life is like that.

Now, how does a channel get offset by 10ms on all tracks of an album (same question goes for the other two oopsies in question)? When did that occur? At mixdown? At mastering? I strongly suspect it was before the album was saved as a single image (often a master is one long file that is carved up with a cue sheet at authoring). So one accidental click or nudge on one channel would affect all 15 songs.
Given that this was a DTS Entertainment release, initially, it seems plausible that the LFE was lowered for the DTS codec. It's great that it got released in DVD-A though.

 

[Snood]

Snood still waiting for new faulty replacement disc of original faulty disc

 

[Beefalo]

Snood still waiting for new faulty replacement disc of original faulty disc

Froggy to the rescue !

 

[edisonbaggins]

Listening to the DTS HD Master 5.1 from the blu-ray.
Sounds pretty good!

 

[edisonbaggins]

Listening to the DTS HD Master 5.1 from the blu-ray.
Sounds pretty good!

And then listening to Froggy's Fix sounded even better...

 

[Lord British]

And then listening to Froggy's Fix sounded even better...

Question: When adjusting the gain in Audacity using the slider to the left of the LFE section (+7.6db), should I see a visual change to the track after its applied? I would think the waveform would show that it was "amplified," but nothing happens.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Question: When adjusting the gain in Audacity using the slider to the left of the LFE section (+7.6db), should I see a visual change to the track after its applied? I would think the waveform would show that it was "amplified," but nothing happens.

Not sure about that exact use, but the other sliders don't visually change the waveform (like the panners), so I don't think you should see a change, until after you export and reopen the export.
That's not how I change amplitude though. I select the track and use the amplify command. In that case, you do see the waveform change.

 

[GOS]

Not sure about that exact use, but the other sliders don't visually change the waveform (like the panners), so I don't think you should see a change, until after you export and reopen the export.
That's not how I change amplitude though. I select the track and use the amplify command. In that case, you do see the waveform change.

That's how I do it too.

 

[Lord British]

Not sure about that exact use, but the other sliders don't visually change the waveform (like the panners), so I don't think you should see a change, until after you export and reopen the export.
That's not how I change amplitude though. I select the track and use the amplify command. In that case, you do see the waveform change.

Thanks Mr. Baggins! Dumb question: Does anyone know if the 3 bonus tracks on the 2001 DVDA also suffer from the same issues?

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Listening to the DTS HD Master 5.1 from the blu-ray.
Sounds pretty good!

Could it be that the DTS HD was changed more than the LPCM?