Porcupine Tree 5.1 remasters - Deadwing / In Absentia - getting nearer?

[Delicious2]

Yes, fortunately I had saved the cardboard box the set had come in. Grabbed it for the first time this morning thinking I would repurpose it and there was a "shake". . There's my disk and the same note!
Sorry for complaining/jumping to conclusions.
Ripping now to check waveforms.

 

[JediJoker]

Ripping now to check waveforms.

Thank you!

 

[Delicious2]

Same spot in Trains hard to see if LFE still delayed:

 

[Delicious2]

With LFE amplified 7.6 db it is clearly still delayed

 

[Delicious2]

Here's that same place from Blackest Eyes that KCrimson showed:

 

[Karonte]

Yes, fortunately I had saved the cardboard box the set had come in. Grabbed it for the first time this morning thinking I would repurpose it and there was a "shake". . There's my disk and the same note!
Sorry for complaining/jumping to conclusions.
Ripping now to check waveforms.

Glad you found the replacement disc. I check everything well before sending to trash because of the covid.

It's a pity the LFE delay is still there. Maybe they will manufacture more replacement BDs, so we don't have to wait for 25th, 30th, 40th... anniversary to fully enjoy the 5.1 surround mix [/ironic mode]

So the solution is ripping, "FLACing" and "Audacitying" the sound by ourselves.

Regards.

 

[gazzaworcs]

I’m judging by my ears and this release is so better sounding than the original DVD-A. I think it’s now the best 5.1 PT mix. The bass is now there with improved overall dynamics. Would you even be able to hear a slight LFE delay? It sounds pretty good to me.

 

[knifeman]

Glad you found the replacement disc. I check everything well before sending to trash because of the covid.

It's a pity the LFE delay is still there. Maybe they will manufacture more replacement BDs, so we don't have to wait for 25th, 30th, 40th... anniversary to fully enjoy the 5.1 surround mix [/ironic mode]

So the solution is ripping, "FLACing" and "Audacitying" the sound by ourselves.

Regards.

See Plan9's post in this thread (#311). He pretty much said this wouldn't be corrected because the old mastering was used. I also appreciated his explanation as to why the delay is there in the first place.

 

[hatchling]

I'm glad someone noticed the LFE channel was also lowered by 7.6dB at mastering (originally to accomodate for the lossy encoding, but this wasn't necessary for the lossless track).
I don't think this will be "corrected" on the new Blu-Ray as the old mastering has been kept (apart from the phase errors).

I'd like to learn more about the 7.6db boost of the LFE. I compared my DVD-Audio rip and noticed the LFE channel had the same amplitude. Are you saying then that this reduction happened for the original DVD-Audio release and is a carryover?

 

[boxhead]

See Plan9's post in this thread (#311). He pretty much said this wouldn't be corrected because the old mastering was used. I also appreciated his explanation as to why the delay is there in the first place.

Actually I don't think Plan9 was referring to the delay. He said

"I'm glad someone noticed the LFE channel was also lowered by 7.6dB at mastering (originally to accomodate for the lossy encoding, but this wasn't necessary for the lossless track).
I don't think this will be "corrected" on the new Blu-Ray as the old mastering has been kept (apart from the phase errors). "

So the 7.6dB lowering wasn't to be corrected, but I think most were expecting the delay to be corrected?

 

[edisonbaggins]

I'll take a hard look tomorrow, but my prediction stands... I'd bet a decent craps bank roll that @Frogmort 's fix beats @Plan9 's...
The shifted and boosted LFE adds so much BALLS to the record that badly needs it, that I just can't imagine otherwise...
I'll let me ears do the talkin' though!

 

[knifeman]

Actually I don't think Plan9 was referring to the delay. He said

"I'm glad someone noticed the LFE channel was also lowered by 7.6dB at mastering (originally to accomodate for the lossy encoding, but this wasn't necessary for the lossless track).
I don't think this will be "corrected" on the new Blu-Ray as the old mastering has been kept (apart from the phase errors). "

So the 7.6dB lowering wasn't to be corrected, but I think most were expecting the delay to be corrected?

After reading it again I think I did misunderstand his post. So is this delay an error? I don't rip any of my stuff so I rely on some of you to educate me a bit.

 

[edisonbaggins]

So is this delay an error?

It sure doesn't help anything. Not sure how much it detracts. For the homespun fix, done from ripping the DVD-A, I found there to be a massive improvement by booting the LFE though. And if it is audible, maybe the shift would detract some. On the original mastering the LFE is nearly 8 db too low.

 

[knifeman]

It sure doesn't help anything. Not sure how much it detracts. For the homespun fix, done from ripping the DVD-A, I found there to be a massive improvement by booting the LFE though. And if it is audible, maybe the shift would detract some. On the original mastering the LFE is nearly 8 db too low.

So the LFE was/is 7.6db too quiet? If that's the case, how can anyone know that. How do you know what the original producer's, engineer's, mixer's, etc. intent was concerning the LFE?

 

[edisonbaggins]

So the LFE was/is 7.6db too quiet? If that's the case, how can anyone know that. How do you know what the original producer's, engineer's, mixer's, etc. intent was concerning the LFE?

There was some comment posted somewhere... stating that the LFE was lowered for lossy encoding, but was unnecessary for lossless DVD-A. It just wasn't undone in time for production...

 

[PK]

Replacement disc has arrived

 

[hatchling]

There was some comment posted somewhere... stating that the LFE was lowered for lossy encoding, but was unnecessary for lossless DVD-A. It just wasn't undone in time for production...

I hope we learn more than what was said in that single comment. The phase and alignment errors are one thing because they are obvious, but boosting levels is getting into personal preference territory which doesn't seem ideal.

 

[bluelightning]

I hope we learn more than what was said in that single comment. The phase and alignment errors are one thing because they are obvious, but boosting levels is getting into personal preference territory which doesn't seem ideal.

For this recording, I would say that for most people 7.6dB is going to be just right. Without the boost, it is just too bass shy. In fact I would say that it might be fine with an additional boost and still not sound bloated. This is rock/heavy metal as is!

 

[edisonbaggins]

I hope we learn more than what was said in that single comment. The phase and alignment errors are one thing because they are obvious, but boosting levels is getting into personal preference territory which doesn't seem ideal.

I hear ya on that. And the phasing too. FWIW, I'm attemting to reach out to Darcy Proper, so see if she can give some insights.

 

[knifeman]

I have a question to all of you who rip their music: how do you play it on your system? Do you copy it to an external hard drive? And another question: when you make changes to a mix (In Absentia being a good example), do you save it as you would a regular file, and then that becomes your preferred listening mix?