Rush - "Presto" & "Roll The Bones" Discussion

[edisonbaggins]

Hopefully someday @Stephen W Tayler will get the go-ahead to remix Presto and Roll the Bones.

And speaking of SWT/Rupert Hine albums... I recently saw Howard Jones live. He opened for Culture Club.
Awesome set. Provoked me to hunt down Human's Lib and Dream Into Action.

Couldn't help but notice that they're both produced by Rupert Hine and engineered by SWT! Those albums could be great candidates for @PaulatSDE to consider for the SDE surround series.

On a practical note, it seems that a lot of SWT's work gets locked in expensive sets. It would be very cool to see his work released very affordably!

 

[RustyStatic]

I like "Tears"... a lot. Perhaps from the whole brain washing effect of listening to the album 2112 a thousand times.

Also guilty. But wow, I never even thought about it as a record company leaning on them for something like that, @jimfisheye... but we certanly know that kinda thing happened, so eh, who knows. One thing that is pretty cool though is that Alex and Geddy have always been pretty objective (if not self depreciating) about a bunch of stuff across their entire catalog—I think they'd be smirking right along with us on a lot this stuff. I don't remember where I saw it but there was an interview with Alex around the time of Counterparts where he was asked about the shift away from synths and he said something like... "well yeah, because keyboards just suck, man." Haha...

 

[GOS]

Hopefully someday @Stephen W Tayler will get the go-ahead to remix Presto and Roll the Bones.

And speaking of SWT/Rupert Hine albums... I recently saw Howard Jones live. He opened for Culture Club.
Awesome set. Provoked me to hunt down Human's Lib and Dream Into Action.

Couldn't help but notice that they're both produced by Rupert Hine and engineered by SWT! Those albums could be great candidates for @PaulatSDE to consider for the SDE surround series.

On a practical note, it seems that a lot of SWT's work gets locked in expensive sets. It would be very cool to see his work released very affordably!

I fully support this message!!!

 

[fcormier]

Rivendell, Take a Friend, Neurotica...

Hey, I like Neurotica, as I do like Superconductor

 

[JulesRules]

I like the pre-chorus of Neurotica and the chorus a bit less. The verse is a bit nondescript for me.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I like the pre-chorus of Neurotica and the chorus a bit less. The verse is a bit nondescript for me.

That prechorus riff is very similar to Cygnus X-1.

 

[Frogmort]

That's entertainment!

 

[jimfisheye]

Also guilty. But wow, I never even thought about it as a record company leaning on them for something like that, @jimfisheye... but we certanly know that kinda thing happened, so eh, who knows. One thing that is pretty cool though is that Alex and Geddy have always been pretty objective (if not self depreciating) about a bunch of stuff across their entire catalog—I think they'd be smirking right along with us on a lot this stuff. I don't remember where I saw it but there was an interview with Alex around the time of Counterparts where he was asked about the shift away from synths and he said something like... "well yeah, because keyboards just suck, man." Haha...

The original blueprint for this is Kiss - Beth, right?

Or is it... What about Changes on Vol4? That was 1972. I guess I don't know the whole history of this but it sure feels like a "producer" formula kind of decision.

I wouldn't be surprised if it had come full circle though and maybe in the case of Rivendell and Tears, these guys were emulating what was considered a formula instead of being coerced?

I don't know. Put any other Rush song on besides those two. Deepest cut you want. Sounds like classic Rush. Those two songs sound as much like Rush as Beth sounds like Kiss or Babe sounds like Styx. The sound of easy listening / lite rock AM radio.

 

[SyrinxTemple]

When Power Windows came out, I was not excited AT ALL about the heavy keyboard direction of the band. Now days, I LOVE the album. I was excited during the Clockwork Angels tour when they played 3 tracks from the album.

When Hold Your Fire came out, I was even more disappointed. It was the only Rush album since Moving Pictures that I did not purchase upon release. It's still not one of their albums that I listen to often.

Now, when Presto came out, I was excited. I was a Junior in high school at the time. That album brought back the guitars a bit, but the production is pretty thin. But, I do like the album quite a bit. I listened to it recently. Last month, in fact.

Now, Roll the Bones is a strange one. There are songs on there that I absolutely love (Dreamline, Ghost of a Chance, Bravado). Although it was shocking at the time, I don't mind the title track. However, there are some songs on that album that I dislike to a great degree. I think "Face Up" and "You Bet Your Life" are two of the worst songs they have ever recorded. So, RtB, for me, is possibly my least favorite album by the band. T4E is another one I do not care for. But, from A Farewell to Kings through Signals they could do no wrong.

All of this is my opinion, of course.

 

[Bill B]

But, from A Farewell to Kings through Signals they could do no wrong.

All of this is my opinion, of course.

Wow! You couldn't see your way to say "from 2112 through Signals they could do no wrong".

Most fans would consider 2112 one of their key albums, but we all have different tastes and there are no wrong answers.

 

[SyrinxTemple]

Wow! You couldn't see your way to say "from 2112 through Signals they could do no wrong".

Most fans would consider 2112 one of their key albums, but we all have different tastes and there are no wrong answers.

I did pause before typing AftK. And, I would have no problem throwing 2112 in there. I think it is based on the fact there are a few week tracks on Side 2. But, if I were to listen to 2112, I would not skip a single song on Side 2. I like both "Tears" and "Lessons", so 2112 could certainly be a part of that string. Because if we were to go to AftK, "Madrigal" might be considered a bit weak.

So, one could say Hemispheres, Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures are flawless. But, should AftK be left off because of a 2 minute track? or 2112 for 2 tracks on Side 2? Probably not.

I know I'm rambling, but I would have no problem adding 2112 in there.

 

[GOS]

I did pause before typing AftK. And, I would have no problem throwing 2112 in there. I think it is based on the fact there are a few week tracks on Side 2. But, if I were to listen to 2112, I would not skip a single song on Side 2. I like both "Tears" and "Lessons", so 2112 could certainly be a part of that string. Because if we were to go to AftK, "Madrigal" might be considered a bit weak.

So, one could say Hemispheres, Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures are flawless. But, should AftK be left off because of a 2 minute track? or 2112 for 2 tracks on Side 2? Probably not.

I know I'm rambling, but I would have no problem adding 2112 in there.

damn, I find no weak tracks in 2112. It's a freaking ball buster for sure.

 

[stoopid]

I did pause before typing AftK. And, I would have no problem throwing 2112 in there. I think it is based on the fact there are a few week tracks on Side 2. But, if I were to listen to 2112, I would not skip a single song on Side 2. I like both "Tears" and "Lessons", so 2112 could certainly be a part of that string. Because if we were to go to AftK, "Madrigal" might be considered a bit weak.

So, one could say Hemispheres, Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures are flawless. But, should AftK be left off because of a 2 minute track? or 2112 for 2 tracks on Side 2? Probably not.

I know I'm rambling, but I would have no problem adding 2112 in there.

There's few albums by any band in the history of rock music that don't have one or two weaker tracks on them. As you indicate, 'how weak' is really the only (arbitrary) measure and even then fans will often disagree on which of the deep cuts are the weakest. Tears, for example, is a good song even though it's syrupy. Lessons bores me to death. Passage to Bangkok, revered by some fans, is only meh in my book. Here's my hot take -- Something For Nothing is the best track on the album (if you treat the sections of 2112 as individual songs).

 

[SyrinxTemple]

There's few albums by any band in the history of rock music that don't have one or two weaker tracks on them. As you indicate, 'how weak' is really the only (arbitrary) measure and even then fans will often disagree on which of the deep cuts are the weakest. Tears, for example, is a good song even though it's syrupy. Lessons bores me to death. Passage to Bangkok, revered by some fans, is only meh in my book. Here's my hot take -- Something For Nothing is the best track on the album (if you treat the sections of 2112 as individual songs).

"A Passage to Bangkok" is one song of theirs that I prefer live. I'm speaking of the version on Exit...Stage Left. It rocks a little more, and you get Geddy playing rhythm guitar during the solo. Not sure who is playing bass pedals there. But, I love it.

I guess one of the great things about Rush, is that I don't disagree with any of the comments made after mine.

 

[stoopid]

I guess one of the great things about Rush, is that I don't disagree with any of the comments made after mine.

Truth is -- if you're listening to Rush, you're already a winner in my book.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Anybody know if there is a decent mastering of Clockwork Angels? Such as on HDTracks, maybe?
My CD sounds muddy. In Geddy's book, he describes it as the album that VT and S&A were building toward.
Experiment. Experiment. Pay dirt.
I'd really like to give it its best chance.

 

[stoopid]

Anybody know if there is a decent mastering of Clockwork Angels? Such as on HDTracks, maybe?
My CD sounds muddy. In Geddy's book, he describes it as the album that VT and S&A were building toward.
Experiment. Experiment. Pay dirt.
I'd really like to give it its best chance.

It doesn't indicate any remastering/mixing was done, so it would only be a higher resolution version of the original release(?).

https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5deeab28b45f07686f00ddcf
I agree that CA does have some heaviness to the mix, would be interested in a revisited version as well.

 

[edisonbaggins]

It doesn't indicate any remastering/mixing was done, so it would only be a higher resolution version of the original release(?).

https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5deeab28b45f07686f00ddcf
The Vapor Trails hd tracks sounds better to me, I think they actually manipulated the tracks on their end to reduce the clipping and restore some of the dynamics. So there's a (ghost of a) chance this might be similarly 'fixed'. This assumes they thought it needs fixing.

I agree that CA does have some heaviness to the mix, would be interested in a revisited version as well.

As you probably know, there are, at least 3 different masterings of VT.

Original mix/master - 2002?

Original mix/remaster - 2011? (Accidentally included in the Atlantic Years digital set, for about a week, before being replaced by the Remix)

Remix/master - 20?? - Obviously a whole different kettle of fish

To my ear, the Original Mix/Remaster is the best version of the album. Keeps the BALLS intended, while reducing clipping damage to a minimum and letting the album breathe (there is damage at the individual track level)

 

[stoopid]

As you probably know, there are, at least 3 different masterings of VT.

Original mix/master - 2002?

Original mix/remaster - 2011? (Accidentally included in the Atlantic Years digital set, for about a week, before being replaced by the Remix)

Remix/master - 20?? - Obviously a whole different kettle of fish

To my ear, the Original Mix/Remaster is the best version of the album. Keeps the BALLS intended, while reducing clipping damage to a minimum and letting the album breathe (there is damage at the individual track level)

Yeah the HD Tracks one I have is the 2013 remaster as part of this series:

https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5ddefc2443fd3cb03956a99a
That's why I edited my post as I created more questions than answers mentioning Vapor Trails. The 2013 is probably the same one you also prefer, it's the same feel without the defective mastering. The *actual* remix from 2013 is fine, but it's a different album IMO and on a few tracks like Secret Touch some of the umph is gone.

It would seem there's no official remaster or remix for CA, so it's unlikely anything you'll find is a different mix/master. If you have the tools (EQ, limiter to 'recompress' to a listening level you want) you could in theory make your own remaster, I've done that with a couple albums over the years usually to remove sibilance.

 

[SyrinxTemple]

Anybody know if there is a decent mastering of Clockwork Angels? Such as on HDTracks, maybe?
My CD sounds muddy. In Geddy's book, he describes it as the album that VT and S&A were building toward.
Experiment. Experiment. Pay dirt.
I'd really like to give it its best chance.

The vinyl is the best mastering of Clockwork Angels, imo, but that's not saying much.