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Black Sabbath - Vol. 4 Super Deluxe Edition (with some Steven Wilson mixes) Feb 12th, 2021

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GOS

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Seeing Steven working on this release makes me day dream about his golden touch on the Led Zep catalog...of course someone would have to kidnap Jimmy Page for this to worko_O
Seriously may man, there are iterally dozens of bands that we all dream about Wilson getting access to. I mean, I simply cannot fathom the joy of hearing Zeps debut mixed by Wilson. Holy crap that would be bad ass.
 

fredblue

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2 things I never thought I would see in the same sentence..Black Sabbath and Steven Wilson:love:...in my optimistic world this opens up everything...bands I never thought might employ him are now on my imaginary table..this is as far from the prog world as you can get(y) as someone on here always says...HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL
tbh i'm cautiously optimistic from a surround music potential point of view since he's been involved with remixing Chicago, Deep Purple, etc but nothing in 5.1 came of any of it, so far.. :)
 

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jimfisheye

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If the HD digital transfers of the Zeppelin original mixes were mastered with the same aesthetic as the 1st 5 original pressing vinyl releases (as opposed to apparently Page's current state of hearing) I'd be really happy. I like those mixes quite a bit actually! The HD masters are clearly free of original generation loss, clear as a bell, and have extended dynamics. But the high end is screamin!

I sure don't mind the original Sabbath mixes. I don't know what's up with the lo grade to awful budget mastering of all the digital copies though and that's messed up. Anything from the hand of Steve Wilson will be welcome. Volume 4 would have been one of my first dream requests for a surround remix. Followed closely by <lists the rest of the original lineup catalog>
 

Plan9

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I'll definitely vouch for the Japanese SHM-SACD! Awesome. I should get the MOR one, too, but as I recall, even the vinyl original was sludgy at best.
Same here, I mentionned the 2009 CD because it is close in sound quality (second best really) and the SHM-SACDs are impossible to find at a decent price.
I have the original MOR vinyl pressing and it sounds quite sludgy but very deep and powerful, not unlike the SHM-SACD anyway.
 

GOS

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I own the SHM-SACD of Vol 4. and I also own a CD, unfortunatly, I ripped it and put the CD away...so I have no way to know what I have.
Below, first are DR values for SACD, then below that, my CD.

Analyzed: Black Sabbath / Black Sabbath Vol.4 (2012 SHM-SACD)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10 -2.46 dB -14.59 dB 8:15 01-Wheels Of Confusion
DR11 -0.67 dB -13.43 dB 3:12 02-Tomorrow's Dream
DR11 -2.47 dB -15.90 dB 4:45 03-Changes
DR13 -4.40 dB -24.64 dB 1:43 04-FX
DR10 -0.81 dB -13.81 dB 4:43 05-Supernaut
DR11 -0.69 dB -15.87 dB 5:31 06-Snowblind
DR12 -0.66 dB -15.42 dB 3:54 07-Cornucopia
DR10 -3.38 dB -15.88 dB 2:53 08-Laguna Sunrise
DR10 -0.92 dB -12.75 dB 2:30 09-St. Vitus' Dance
DR12 -0.01 dB -15.40 dB 5:51 10-Under The Sun
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate: 88200 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 2727 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================


Analyzed: Black Sabbath / Vol. 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 0.00 dB -13.43 dB 8:02 01-Wheels Of Confusion / The Straightener
DR11 -1.52 dB -14.77 dB 3:13 02-Tomorrow's Dream
DR13 -0.60 dB -17.17 dB 4:46 03-Changes
DR14 -6.78 dB -29.92 dB 1:43 04-FX
DR11 -0.30 dB -14.34 dB 4:40 05-Supernaut
DR12 0.00 dB -15.15 dB 5:34 06-Snowblind
DR13 0.00 dB -15.11 dB 3:55 07-Cornucopia
DR11 -1.75 dB -17.01 dB 2:56 08-Laguna Sunrise
DR12 0.00 dB -15.21 dB 2:30 09-St. Vitus Dance
DR13 0.00 dB -15.12 dB 5:51 10-Under The Sun/Every Day Comes and Goes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bitrate: 289 kbps
Codec: AAC
================================================================================
 

Tres Discrete

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I own the SHM-SACD of Vol 4. and I also own a CD, unfortunatly, I ripped it and put the CD away...so I have no way to know what I have.
Below, first are DR values for SACD, then below that, my CD.

Analyzed: Black Sabbath / Black Sabbath Vol.4 (2012 SHM-SACD)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10 -2.46 dB -14.59 dB 8:15 01-Wheels Of Confusion
DR11 -0.67 dB -13.43 dB 3:12 02-Tomorrow's Dream
DR11 -2.47 dB -15.90 dB 4:45 03-Changes
DR13 -4.40 dB -24.64 dB 1:43 04-FX
DR10 -0.81 dB -13.81 dB 4:43 05-Supernaut
DR11 -0.69 dB -15.87 dB 5:31 06-Snowblind
DR12 -0.66 dB -15.42 dB 3:54 07-Cornucopia
DR10 -3.38 dB -15.88 dB 2:53 08-Laguna Sunrise
DR10 -0.92 dB -12.75 dB 2:30 09-St. Vitus' Dance
DR12 -0.01 dB -15.40 dB 5:51 10-Under The Sun
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate: 88200 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 2727 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================


Analyzed: Black Sabbath / Vol. 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 0.00 dB -13.43 dB 8:02 01-Wheels Of Confusion / The Straightener
DR11 -1.52 dB -14.77 dB 3:13 02-Tomorrow's Dream
DR13 -0.60 dB -17.17 dB 4:46 03-Changes
DR14 -6.78 dB -29.92 dB 1:43 04-FX
DR11 -0.30 dB -14.34 dB 4:40 05-Supernaut
DR12 0.00 dB -15.15 dB 5:34 06-Snowblind
DR13 0.00 dB -15.11 dB 3:55 07-Cornucopia
DR11 -1.75 dB -17.01 dB 2:56 08-Laguna Sunrise
DR12 0.00 dB -15.21 dB 2:30 09-St. Vitus Dance
DR13 0.00 dB -15.12 dB 5:51 10-Under The Sun/Every Day Comes and Goes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR12

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bitrate: 289 kbps
Codec: AAC
================================================================================
Would you be kind enough to summarize in layman’s terms your findings between the 2 for those of us who have no idea what we are looking at? This is one of my favorite albums, but the price of the SHM-SACD is stratospheric...
Thanks
 

halbroome

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Same here, I mentionned the 2009 CD because it is close in sound quality (second best really) and the SHM-SACDs are impossible to find at a decent price.
I have the original MOR vinyl pressing and it sounds quite sludgy but very deep and powerful, not unlike the SHM-SACD anyway.
You jostled me to put on the 2009 "Master Deluxe" version of MOR -- yep, as sludgy as the original, but in a nice way! My system now is much better than "back then" so I'm happy. Lately I've felt guilty about having all this music (and versions) that I rarely listen to . . . but. Great to have when you have the itch! :rocks .
 

GOS

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Would you be kind enough to summarize in layman’s terms your findings between the 2 for those of us who have no idea what we are looking at? This is one of my favorite albums, but the price of the SHM-SACD is stratospheric...
Thanks
Oh, in general, I just post those for fun. When dynamic range values (average of the whole album) drop below 8, I start paying attention. Meaning, I start thinking it might sound compressed, harsh, no differences between loud and soft passages. Metallic, etc.

As if often said, the DR values can become another way of sort of sifting through all the different versions of albums. What often happens with an older recording is...the original has super DR values, and lots of times, you can hear the quality. If that same album is remastered in recent times...most often the remaster has been brickwalled. DR values plumet......and the overall sound quality is crap. Just, crap.

Now, this certainly does not happen all the time, but I believe, more often than not. Unfortunate.

For the record, whatever CD version I have, I honestly could not tell the difference between that and the SHM SACD I have. In fact, the CD sounded damn good. It was louder, but that's about it. Volume knobs take care of that typically.
 

halbroome

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Oh, in general, I just post those for fun. When dynamic range values (average of the whole album) drop below 8, I start paying attention. Meaning, I start thinking it might sound compressed, harsh, no differences between loud and soft passages. Metallic, etc.

As if often said, the DR values can become another way of sort of sifting through all the different versions of albums. What often happens with an older recording is...the original has super DR values, and lots of times, you can hear the quality. If that same album is remastered in recent times...most often the remaster has been brickwalled. DR values plumet......and the overall sound quality is crap. Just, crap.

Now, this certainly does not happen all the time, but I believe, more often than not. Unfortunate.

For the record, whatever CD version I have, I honestly could not tell the difference between that and the SHM SACD I have. In fact, the CD sounded damn good. It was louder, but that's about it. Volume knobs take care of that typically.
In other words, if you don't like the sound, crank it up. If not then, sell it.
 

Tres Discrete

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Oh, in general, I just post those for fun. When dynamic range values (average of the whole album) drop below 8, I start paying attention. Meaning, I start thinking it might sound compressed, harsh, no differences between loud and soft passages. Metallic, etc.

As if often said, the DR values can become another way of sort of sifting through all the different versions of albums. What often happens with an older recording is...the original has super DR values, and lots of times, you can hear the quality. If that same album is remastered in recent times...most often the remaster has been brickwalled. DR values plumet......and the overall sound quality is crap. Just, crap.

Now, this certainly does not happen all the time, but I believe, more often than not. Unfortunate.

For the record, whatever CD version I have, I honestly could not tell the difference between that and the SHM SACD I have. In fact, the CD sounded damn good. It was louder, but that's about it. Volume knobs take care of that typically.
Thank you very much for your explanation.
As someone new to the audiophile game it is really helpful to have a benchmark for dynamic range. Having said that, I will risk appearing as what a former associate would call (in his southern drawl) “like a cow looking in a drugstore window” and ask how the DR for each individual track is calculated - I can’t quite pick it up from the dB measurements for each track...unless I am just missing something - which is completely possible 🙃
 

Plan9

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Thank you very much for your explanation.
As someone new to the audiophile game it is really helpful to have a benchmark for dynamic range. Having said that, I will risk appearing as what a former associate would call (in his southern drawl) “like a cow looking in a drugstore window” and ask how the DR for each individual track is calculated - I can’t quite pick it up from the dB measurements for each track...unless I am just missing something - which is completely possible 🙃
It is very technical, but there's more info on their site. The trouble with the free DR meter is that it really penalizes strong low bass content and is geared especially towards noticing limiting. So you can have a dynamic master with strong unfiltered bass and very mild limiting on the highest peaks only, and yet get a DR6 measurement.
On the whole, it is a good tool for comparisons, but not for judgments in absolute terms.
 
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Tres Discrete

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It is very technical, but there's more info on their site. The trouble with the free DR meter is that it really penalizes strong low bass content and is geared especially towards noticing limiting. So you can have a dynamic master with strong unfiltered bass and very mild limiting on the highest peaks only, and yet get a DR6 measurement.
On the whole, it is a good tool for comparisons, but not for judgments in absolute terms.
Oy! Should have known it would not be cut-and-dry...seems like nothing in this realm is (I for one would enjoy strong unfiltered bass!)
Then again I suppose a lot of music appreciation is subjective.
Still interesting to have some kind of tool to attempt to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Thank you for your response 👍🏼
 

jimfisheye

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LUFS is better. Takes loudness over time into consideration. You can kind of make something as loud as you want and make a db meter say what you want. Just like the TV commercials that somehow weren't breaking the rules while sounding 2x louder than everything else.

But yeah, when you see a "DR" measurement of 2 you get a general idea of what you're about to hear!
 

Glenshoreham

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When dynamic range values (average of the whole album) drop below 8, I start paying attention. Meaning, I start thinking it might sound compressed, harsh, no differences between loud and soft passages. Metallic, etc.
Not metallic in a metal way, though ... much less cool. 😉 I own the first five Sabbath SHM-SACDs, and love them. CDJapan received lots of my moneys back then. Now I wish I'd bought two copies of some of them, not least the Sabbath titles, and the blink-and-you'll-miss-it original release of Breakfast In America. 😅
 
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